I'm going to be teaching a friend how to play tonight, and I have a pair of 64 point lists to use set up, and just want some feedback.

Rebels:

Wedge+Marksmanship (32)

Luke+R2D2 (32)

Imperial:

Darth Vader+Squad Leader (31)

Mauler Mithel (17)

Backstabber (16)

Some highlights:

- Each squad has approximately the same hit points (10 for Rebel, 11 for Imperial)

- All pilots are named and have useful abilities

- The same number of dice per side for Attack (6 and 6)

- Favorable Agilty dice for the Imperials (9 to 4)

- HP recovery for the Rebels (R2D2)

- High PS for both sides

In all I figure it's fairly balanced when I take the Imperials, because my experience and skill level make up for the Rebs power. I don't mind saying it probably could be better, more balanced, or whatever, but it's very thematic to use 'Vader vs. Luke' for teaching, and adding in other great pilots only adds to the experience. I've played 1 ship vs 1 ship teaching matches and they usually last way too long, so I figure with a few more ships on the table things will die faster and speed things up. Besides, most of the fun is learning how to move ships in and amongst both your own squad and your opponents.

What do you use for a teaching squad?

Jacob

The Rebel list is much much much better. Both Wedge and Luke are top tier ships. Vader isnt. Mithel isnt. Backstabber is, but hes only 16 points.

Luke also skews the game because if it comes down to him being on the field late game, its very very very very very very very very very very very very very ver vey ry hard to kill him 1v1 or even 2v1.

EVEN WORSE WITH R2D2. That imp player is going to have a headache.

Don't play that squad.

The Rebel list is much much much better. Both Wedge and Luke are top tier ships. Vader isnt. Mithel isnt. Backstabber is, but hes only 16 points.

Luke also skews the game because if it comes down to him being on the field late game, its very very very very very very very very very very very very very ver vey ry hard to kill him 1v1 or even 2v1.

EVEN WORSE WITH R2D2. That imp player is going to have a headache.

Don't play that squad.

Thanks for your feedback, but you missed the point.

What do you use for teaching?

I'm ok with giving myself a terrible Imperial squad, because the point of the match is learning and having fun, not being competitive.

Jacob

I like simpler squads for teaching.

Rookie X-Wing w/Shield upgrades X2 = 50

Academy TIE X2 & Obsidian TIE X2 = 50

Its simple, , illustrates pilot skill well and you don't need to understand any special abilities. New players have enough going on to remember.

After you play, you show them Wedge and their jaw drops.

EDIT: corrected my syntax

Also just set up all the asteroids in a boring configuration.

Mauler is 17 points

The Rebel list is much much much better. Both Wedge and Luke are top tier ships. Vader isnt. Mithel isnt. Backstabber is, but hes only 16 points.

Luke also skews the game because if it comes down to him being on the field late game, its very very very very very very very very very very very very very ver vey ry hard to kill him 1v1 or even 2v1.

EVEN WORSE WITH R2D2. That imp player is going to have a headache.

Don't play that squad.

This. All of this. (Except the part about Mithel).

I firmly believe teaching games should be played with generic pilots. Less to worry about; both in terms of what the new player has to keep track of, and as far as potentially unbalancing abilities. And Astromech R2-D2 is probably the single biggest game-changing upgrade in existence. Luke and Wedge are both great, and in combination are a pain to deal with.

Have the Rebels pick 2-3 of the following:

- Rookie Pilot with Proton Torpedoes.

- Gray Squadron Pilot with Proton Torpedoes and R2 Astromech.

- Green Squadron Pilot with Outmaneuver and Concussion Missiles.

- Blue Squadron Pilot with Advanced Sensors.

For the Imperials:

- Academy Pilot and Obsidian Squadron Pilot.

- Storm Squadron Pilot with Homing Missiles.

- Saber Squadron Pilot with Push the Limit.

- Gamma Squadron Pilot with Concussion Missiles and Seismic Charges.

Any combination of these will teach the advantages and disadvantages of Pilot Skill, show a wide variety of maneuverability and attack options, and showcase the differences and similarities between Rebel and Imperial ships. They also should avoid potentially frustrating rules interactions and generally stick to the basics of the game.

Taught someone new with Luke and Wedge last week. Went great. Just make them fly a lone x wing against tie's first and they can even pick out their upgrade cards.

You want to generate a X-Wing player?

Play with this lists and take the Empire.

You want to have quick fun?

Play with this lists and take the rebels.

I disagree with most of the posts so far. The point of a teaching game is to teach, but also to hook the person on the game. Doing a Luke vs Vader showdown is perfect! Its straight from the film and highly recognizable. It can be hard for a new player to remember pilot abilities, but with only two ships for them to control and you there to remind them, it shouldn't be an issue. As far as your squad not being good enough, its not about being competitive, and if the new player wins, they are more likely to have a good time and want to play again/pick up the core set. So far I am three for three in teaching a friend the game and creating an addict, and I have always used ships from wave 1 for starter games.

I disagree with most of the posts so far. The point of a teaching game is to teach, but also to hook the person on the game. Doing a Luke vs Vader showdown is perfect! Its straight from the film and highly recognizable. It can be hard for a new player to remember pilot abilities, but with only two ships for them to control and you there to remind them, it shouldn't be an issue. As far as your squad not being good enough, its not about being competitive, and if the new player wins, they are more likely to have a good time and want to play again/pick up the core set. So far I am three for three in teaching a friend the game and creating an addict, and I have always used ships from wave 1 for starter games.

I can get on board with a Luke/Vader showdown for the thematic pull, but the OPs seems a tad too much to me. Why not just do a simpler version of Luke vs. Vader?

Luke (28)

Red Squadron (23)

Vader (29)

Academy Tie x2 (24)

Throw a shield or hull upgrade in if you want to boost the new player a bit.

I like that idea, but I also don't really like the tendency so many have suggested to take generics in a teaching game. I've taught a few at this point, and every time I've used only/some generics my opponents have been less enthused then when I used named pilots with abilities. I think it's just more fun to use 'Backstabber' and 'Mauler Mithel' over Academy Tie x2.

Jacob

When building teaching, or 'Rookie' lists, I tend to go with the K.I.S.S method. Keep It Simple Stupid...

Instead of overwhelming new players with rules, new actions, and whatnot, my rookie lists tend to be straight ships with little to no upgrades. In the early part of learning the games, tactics, abilities and synergies are simply not going to work. They will spend most of their time just trying not to slam into other ships or the rock.

As they learn the game, then I turn the volume up slowly but surely. By game 15-20-ish they are making their own lists...

I disagree with most of the posts so far. The point of a teaching game is to teach, but also to hook the person on the game. Doing a Luke vs Vader showdown is perfect! Its straight from the film and highly recognizable. It can be hard for a new player to remember pilot abilities, but with only two ships for them to control and you there to remind them, it shouldn't be an issue. As far as your squad not being good enough, its not about being competitive, and if the new player wins, they are more likely to have a good time and want to play again/pick up the core set. So far I am three for three in teaching a friend the game and creating an addict, and I have always used ships from wave 1 for starter games.

You know I guess its about whether the person you are teaching is more of a game fan or more of a Star Wars fan.

Vader and Luke are easy to remember and don't complicate things.

I am wondering if you could do a more thematic list for a hard core fan:

This demo is called "Don't Get Cocky Kid"

Rebels (51)

Chewbacca 42

Luke 7

Han 2

Imperials: (51)

Black Squadron Pilot 14

Determination 1

Academy Tie X3 36

You could probably replace BSP with Nightbeast, but I would have the fan fly Chewy. I would consider giving chewy a hull upgrade and/or a Falcon title if I wanted to let the imperials have a few more points to play with.

I know some people have issues with a turret for a demo, but this is for someone more into Star Wars than gaming.

When building teaching, or 'Rookie' lists, I tend to go with the K.I.S.S method. Keep It Simple Stupid...

Instead of overwhelming new players with rules, new actions, and whatnot, my rookie lists tend to be straight ships with little to no upgrades. In the early part of learning the games, tactics, abilities and synergies are simply not going to work. They will spend most of their time just trying not to slam into other ships or the rock.

As they learn the game, then I turn the volume up slowly but surely. By game 15-20-ish they are making their own lists...

15-20?!?

When building teaching, or 'Rookie' lists, I tend to go with the K.I.S.S method. Keep It Simple Stupid...

As they learn the game, then I turn the volume up slowly but surely. By game 15-20-ish they are making their own lists...

Very good point, but my goodness - 15-20 games before building lists! My goodness! Usually the people I've been teaching are at it after 4 or 5 games.

Jacob

So I flew my Vader and Ties versus Luke and Wedge tonight - very successful. Then I played a Turr and Academies vs an Etahn and Prototype Pilot and that also went really well. Rebs won both matches with just one Hit Point left. Both were come from behind wins. Much fun was had, and my friend really felt like game 2 was much easier (and much more fun) to play.

Jacob

Why do you do the basic Rookie Pilot + Hull upgrade vs 2 Academy Ties? I know the hull upgrade isn't in the basic set, but everything else is and the matches are quick, teach a lot about the game and are evenly matched. Only real issue with this is that you don't get to see how card synergy can effect dice rolls, so some people may feel the game falls too much on dice.

While I do enjoy a starter list that teaches basic mechanics and fundamental concepts. I wouldn't have a learner play more than a couple games as part of the game. Players need to learn what works and why and not just follow a tournament list and learn how to play it. Letting them make their own list lets them learn what works and what doesn't sort of like Gaven and Wedge not being compatible.

If I'm teaching a first time player, I run them through the starter. 2 tie's vs an X wing.

You get pretty much all the moves between the 2 dials. You have a broad range of actions across the 3 ships (Target Lock, Focus, Evade, Barrel Roll).

After 1 usually, but sometimes 2 games, I through everything on the table and say "Alright, standard size force is 100 points. Pick a faction, make a list."

The rules are so simple, they should be able to understand them and be making lists after 2 games, and should be making competitive lists after 5-10.

If I'm teaching a first time player, I run them through the starter. 2 tie's vs an X wing.

That's essentially what I did last night for the first game, except that I added one Wave 1 ship per side - the Advanced and another X-wing.

One other thing I did was use a 2'x2' playing surface, and in our first game we used 3 asteroids. 2 asteroids for the second game. I think with the small suface that a 4 asteroid box would work for teaching about maneuvering around asteroids, but having fewer makes for more opportunities for shooting and such.

I think the playing size and circumstances teach as much as the actual ships do.

Jacob

This was my take on teaching squads.

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/110978-intro-mini-squads/#entry1157547

If I'm teaching a first time player, I run them through the starter. 2 tie's vs an X wing.

This.

Most new people i am teaching the game to, i configure and play based on the "quick start rules". Granted i reserve this for those that are either new to gaming and /or new to miniature / war gaming.

For someone who's an avid gamer or has played other miniature games, i upgrade the "starter" squad and implement the full rules instead of using the quick rules.

I use the first mission in the core set. It pretty much covers everything except missles.

I personally use the starter scenario of X vs 2 TIEs. But we use the rules for red/green maneuvers and there are asteroids.