Just to clarify: Force careers only get 6 career skills, and one less free rank. The specializations get the normal (4/2).

But here, we have two different systems to represent the same thing. Characters following one system hit a very low ceiling while characters following the other may not hit that ceiling at all. There's little to no reason for that divide.

No they do not represent the same thing. Up till F&D the Force has taken a backseat to other careers and has been nothing more than an add on or enhancement to the character's current career and spec(s). There is no low ceiling if you allow access to F&D. The only reason characters using the Force unispecs are limited is if you do not allow access to the F&D specs. There is a divide, but it is between the dedicated career Force user and the secondary or tertiary user.

Fantasy Flight is a business. They sell things. That is literally their purpose for existing. If you don't think the beta books are a good use of your money, if you think they're overpriced, or underuseful or whatever, then DON'T BUY THEM!.

Seriously, what kind of whiny pissbaby entitlement complex does someone have to have in order to whine about a company putting out a beta version of their game rules for people to playtest if they want to? And yeah, they're selling the book, did anyone seriously expect it to just be given out for free? None of the components are free. Writers and artists get a salary, Paper and glue are physical things with physical cost. Printers do not work for free.

Grow up people.

Fantasy Flight is a business. They sell things. That is literally their purpose for existing. If you don't think the beta books are a good use of your money, if you think they're overpriced, or underuseful or whatever, then DON'T BUY THEM!.

The problem as I see it is, though, that people will take this advice ("don't buy them") and apply it in a rather irrational, perhaps entitled, fashion; and say that this justifies their participating in piracy, downloading/seeding an illegally uploaded PDF.

If people simply refused to buy it, I would understand. It's the attitude of "I deserve this and I shouldn't have to pay for it" that just kinda stupefies me.

Fantasy Flight is a business. They sell things. That is literally their purpose for existing. If you don't think the beta books are a good use of your money, if you think they're overpriced, or underuseful or whatever, then DON'T BUY THEM!.

The problem as I see it is, though, that people will take this advice ("don't buy them") and apply it in a rather irrational, perhaps entitled, fashion; and say that this justifies their participating in piracy, downloading/seeding an illegally uploaded PDF.

If people simply refused to buy it, I would understand. It's the attitude of "I deserve this and I shouldn't have to pay for it" that just kinda stupefies me.

The issue I have is I do buy the books and I would like to also have the books on PDF. As going to a convention and bringing all the books is difficult. And the only recourse I have to get the books on PDF is to pirate them or spend a lot of effort making them into PDFs myself. I don't have the option of buying them on PDF.

The issue I have is I do buy the books and I would like to also have the books on PDF. As going to a convention and bringing all the books is difficult. And the only recourse I have to get the books on PDF is to pirate them or spend a lot of effort making them into PDFs myself. I don't have the option of buying them on PDF.

That's really not something FFG can help though. Legally they cannot release their Star Wars products as PDFs.

The issue I have is I do buy the books and I would like to also have the books on PDF. As going to a convention and bringing all the books is difficult. And the only recourse I have to get the books on PDF is to pirate them or spend a lot of effort making them into PDFs myself. I don't have the option of buying them on PDF.

May I suggest Oggdude's Character/GM tools?

While it won't have all of the specifics, it should really help out with minimizing the sheer mass of paper you have to transport. Not as good as a PDF, but frankly that is never going to legally happen for this game.

But here, we have two different systems to represent the same thing. Characters following one system hit a very low ceiling while characters following the other may not hit that ceiling at all. There's little to no reason for that divide.

No they do not represent the same thing. Up till F&D the Force has taken a backseat to other careers and has been nothing more than an add on or enhancement to the character's current career and spec(s). There is no low ceiling if you allow access to F&D. The only reason characters using the Force unispecs are limited is if you do not allow access to the F&D specs. There is a divide, but it is between the dedicated career Force user and the secondary or tertiary user.

Thank you for missing the point entirely. It's clear that your opinion differs from mine. I see a divide between two similar but differing systems of doing things, You don't. Let's leave it at that. As I said, I was asked for the reasons for my opinion and I stated them. There is no reason to drive this discussion into the ground over differing opinions.

Thank you for missing the point entirely. It's clear that your opinion differs from mine. I see a divide between two similar but differing systems of doing things, You don't. Let's leave it at that. As I said, I was asked for the reasons for my opinion and I stated them. There is no reason to drive this discussion into the ground over differing opinions.

No I'm pretty sure I didn't miss your point. But you are right about us having differing opinions on the system. And I don't think I'm going to change your mind. But I do not want anyone else making the mistake of thinking that the Force has been presented in the same way in each core book. F&D is the Force book while previously in EotE and AoR it was just a secondary or tertiary ability. Just for people's edification.

I can't see either of my groups ever wanting to play a full force user group. They love the other classes too much. In the game I play, I play the only force user; in the game I GM, none are, only 2 have expressed a passing interest and when I told them about Conflict they promptly changed their minds.

Point I'm making is, I'm glad there's a full force use book, as the force deserves a full book. But it's only ever going to be a career book for our groups and from what I see a good one at that.

I actually really appreciate the way FFG has handled the betas. Selling the beta books ensures that people who actually buy rpg books are the ones testing the game. If it were free, they would be getting opinions from people who have no intention of being actual customers and as such might not provide the most sincere feedback.

Sorry if that's been said already. I honestly didn't read all of this.

The issue I have is I do buy the books and I would like to also have the books on PDF. As going to a convention and bringing all the books is difficult. And the only recourse I have to get the books on PDF is to pirate them or spend a lot of effort making them into PDFs myself. I don't have the option of buying them on PDF.

That's really not something FFG can help though. Legally they cannot release their Star Wars products as PDFs.

I am well aware of the reason. It is my one complaint. I did not say it was FFGs fault. I know it is a licensing issue. I also suspect with Disney now being the one doing the licensing we might get a more intelligent license. but that wont be till 2016 or so.