Hi beta testers,

The second update for Force and Destiny is up! We're still keeping things fairly light at this point, but we did make some changes for character creation, and added a couple new adversaries.

The next update will be two weeks from now, since we anticipate it to be a bit more substantial. In the meantime, keep up the good work, and thanks!

I love the change to the Zabrak. Also the expansion of information on the Holocron and Mentor assets.

I hope before the book is completed you guys also have some (expand it) information on how to better integrate the 3 "roll mechanics" of Morality/Duty/Obligation. Then my "wish list" of fixes is finished.

Right now to use all 3 we need 3 charts and 3 dice rolls if we choose all 3. a method to get it to 1 roll would be fantastic.

I love the change to the Zabrak. Also the expansion of information on the Holocron and Mentor assets.

I hope before the book is completed you guys also have some (expand it) information on how to better integrate the 3 "roll mechanics" of Morality/Duty/Obligation. Then my "wish list" of fixes is finished.

Right now to use all 3 we need 3 charts and 3 dice rolls if we choose all 3. a method to get it to 1 roll would be fantastic.

How about rolling to see which of the three you use each session? At least it cuts it down some.

That still is 2 rolls.

Right now my group uses Morality and Duty. I only roll Duty at the beginning of the game because it is too much of a hassle to bother with the rest. My group loves the Morality mechanic even though only 1 plays a force user. They like the idea of consequences affecting them. I would love to have some useful method to just roll once.

It was even asked on reddit and people posted a whole ton of nothing before giving up on trying after about a week.

The main reason it needs a clarification is this.

If you only use 1 per session and HAVE all 3 against your players, there is 1/3rd less chance anything comes up.

So Obligation is 33% less important, as are the other 2. So the Pains that Obligation coming up cause, aren't as important if you only have to care every now and then, rather than every session. The benefits that Morality / Duty rolls give get increased in power because now there is only a chance 1 out of 3 sessions it will be rolled.

Right now to roll all 3 you need 5 dice (2 rolls of 2 dice, 1 roll of 1 die) I would like a method that allowed for the appropriate level of random and the appropriate reward with less dice/rolls.

Great job fleshing out the Mentor and Holocron. Though, I'm laughing imagining the poor sod who rolls a "3" on Table 2-7 and gets stuck with Tony Soprano...

("Stuck with?" I hear half the readership saying...)

What if you made one percentile roll?

Match that percentile roll against the Obligation chart and the Duty chart. Match the 'ones' value of the percentile roll against your characters' Morality.

What if you made one percentile roll?

Match that percentile roll against the Obligation chart and the Duty chart. Match the 'ones' value of the percentile roll against your characters' Morality.

I was just thinking that, then you said it. Curse you for stealing my thunder! CURSE YOU!

The double-bladed lightsaber on the Fallen Master has Unwieldy 3. Is that an error or a change to double-bladed lightsabers? I don't have my book with me, but I recall them being Unwieldy 2.

Personally, I wouldn't mind Unwieldy 3.

Except that is why I added "the appropriate level of random" rolling once makes 1 random and the others "default". and it makes rolling doubles both amazing and bad at the same time forcing it to become a triumph/despair situation.

So say the roll is 22 hitting someone's Obligation. They lose 4 strain threshold for that session.

It hits a Duty person (different or the same as the Obligation "hit") they gain 4 wound threshold for that session.

I still think it needs a "how to work them together" method rather than "just roll once". Otherwise you can run into a situation potentially that is all sorts of bookkeeping trying to figure out what the end result of all the ups and downs are.

Edit: mis- represented morality

So... why would any Force Users not want to to take a Mentor again?

A little overpowered maybe?

I'm not to keen on the changes to the Zabrak. It seems to be trading one very good talent to one that's somewhere between meh and crappy. Lore wise it fits one group of Zabraks, but not the whole species.

There are also large groups of Zabraks that are not all about being fearsome. That's just one particular subculture.

I think it would be more appropriate to do something like give a choice. Choose either Fearsome countenance Or Soothing Demeanor (or some such), which basically reverses it. Add 1 advantage to charm, and one threat to coercion.

That or allow a choice between the new one and the original.

Shouldn't the new adversaries have a few Force Powers? I know they're in there for lightsaber fights, but still.

For the Zabrak, perhaps take the sub-species route as done with Aqualish and to some extent the Gand (lungs or no lungs)? Such that Dathomorian Zabraks (like Savage Oppress and Maul) get the Fearsome Appearance trait, but the Iridonian Zabraks (like Eeth Koth) get the Boosted Awareness trait?

Other than that, I generally like the updates, though I found it odd that the Fallen Apprentice has Force Rating 1 and the dark sider trait, but no abilities, talents, or powers that rely upon having a Force Rating. Personally, I'm thinking maybe add Influence with a Range Upgrade and the Control Upgrade, or Move with the Strength Upgrade and a Range Upgrade, or perhaps Sense with either the "detect surface thoughts" or "upgrade defense" Control Upgrades.

Fallen Master could also use a Force power or two, quite possibly the Sense power (at least basic, maybe both of the Row 2 Control Upgrades) and one of the options for Inquisitors, or perhaps even the Bind power?

For the Zabrak, perhaps take the sub-species route as done with Aqualish and to some extent the Gand (lungs or no lungs)? Such that Dathomorian Zabraks (like Savage Oppress and Maul) get the Fearsome Appearance trait, but the Iridonian Zabraks (like Eeth Koth) get the Boosted Awareness trait?

I really like this approach, right on the spot Donovan.

I really liked the Mirialan first, now I love them!!!

Yeah, I've got a couple players in games I'm in that are going to be quite pleased with that free rank in Cool, especially since one of them had to buy a rank at the non-career cost.

One thing I'm curious about though in regards to the updated rules on the starting holocron and mentor options.

In the case of the bonus career skills and buying basic Force powers, do those benefits kick during character creation or after?

Since selecting the group resource is frequently the last step of character creation, picking one of those two could result in the PCs getting a sudden XP rebate depending upon which option is chosen, paritcularly the Mentor option since that 5 XP discount often means either an Upgrade for that power or a rank in a career skill. I'm leaning towards the benefit being applied during character creation, but it might not hurt to specify that in a future update.

Speaking of future updates, while it's going to be rough not having an update to look forward to next week, at least the next one promises to be a heartier update. Though truthfully, I can't say I'm disappointed or surprised that the updates so far have been relatively minor; the book is apparently still in distribution channels and not quite in folks' hands yet.

So... why would any Force Users not want to to take a Mentor again?

A little overpowered maybe?

If all of your characters are force users, but what if you have 1 or 2 folks who aren't. It's a big lot of nothing for them.

The Holocron could conceivably save a person up to 50 xp, if they put full ranks into skills that otherwise wouldn't be class skills. You'd have to take 10 force powers to match that. Plus the Holocron benefits everybody. They're both good options depending on the needs of the group.

Another thing to consider with the Mentor's XP savings on basic Force powers is that it only matters if the character is going to purchase several Force powers (at least 4, if not all of them). There are undoubtedly some character builds that aren't going to have more than one or two Force powers, and probably some that aren't going to buy any powers, being what superhero RPGs call "stealth supers" in that they don't have any obvious or flashy powers but are still well above the norm.

The Force wizards will probably loving having a Mentor, but overall the XP savings isn't going to be that huge. Depending on what skills are chosen/rolled for the holocron and the nature of the campaign, the XP savings on having those two skills be career skills could be far more valuable.

The thing I don't like, is that the assumption in F&D is that everyone is Force sensitive, so everyone could benefit from a mentor. With the career skills from a holocron, you may not get any benefit, as you might already have both career skills.

Maybe put in a firm suggestion that the GM should strive to make sure everyone gets at least one bonus career skill from a holocron once everyone's careers and specializations are determined.

Since selecting the group resource is frequently the last step of character creation, picking one of those two could result in the PCs getting a sudden XP rebate depending upon which option is chosen, paritcularly the Mentor option since that 5 XP discount often means either an Upgrade for that power or a rank in a career skill. I'm leaning towards the benefit being applied during character creation, but it might not hurt to specify that in a future update.

My guess is that since choosing the group resource is the final step, there will be no impact to starting character builds per se. However, if the group agrees on a resource beforehand, then certainly characters can be made to best take advantage of that resource. For example, if everyone wants a Mentor, then players are less likely to choose basic powers with starting XP -- this would appear to be a feature, not a bug, since that is exactly the kind of group that would narratively benefit the most from a Mentor.

However, if you were instead going for "knight" option or some other advanced party, then Mentor/Holocron should absolutely give discounts on that bonus spent XP.

For the Zabrak, perhaps take the sub-species route as done with Aqualish and to some extent the Gand (lungs or no lungs)? Such that Dathomorian Zabraks (like Savage Oppress and Maul) get the Fearsome Appearance trait, but the Iridonian Zabraks (like Eeth Koth) get the Boosted Awareness trait?

+9,001

Really hate the Zabrak thing. They're actually one of the 'pretty' races, do all of them look fearsome? Meh.

I'd be more than happy with Donovan's suggestion to have a choice of either ability here.

For a mixed Party (FU/nonFU) I'd have the Mentor give access to learning a non-Career Skill as though it were Career for the nonFUs, that ought to roughly equal out.

For a mixed Party (FU/nonFU) I'd have the Mentor give access to learning a non-Career Skill as though it were Career for the nonFUs, that ought to roughly equal out.

For mixed company, I expect as many different solutions as there are GMs, so I'm hoping for no hard-and-fast rules, but simply good suggestions in the final product.