I think i'd have to fly them a bit more and try variations before writing them off. I'm usually playing against them and they've yet to be a serious threat.
I've found once the ordnance is expended they are not even really that good as 'high hit point' fighters as its easy to stay on their tail with a true fighter.
I think they are a cool looking option so i'd have to consign them to the scrapheap.
I have played 4 x bombers in a squad twice at store league meets and won both times with them. 3 assault missiles modified by Jonus is not something that is easy to withstand.
It is a cool ship and has some flexability. I don't think its been used enough to truly says its not worth it.
I find they have a good niche in the payload delivery option.
They have a real good fit in EPIC play.
I only have 5 of them, so I can't really advise you.
yeah i thought they would find their feet against huge ships...
Random thought that may help with my previous list of problems (and to which I expect everyone to say "Well, DUH!")...
I can't see Jonus needing his action so much, as it's not him who should be firing off missiles and the like. If we give him Squad Leader, you can then have a cheap Scimitar gaining its lock at PS6, hopefully after at least some of the opposing team have come into range 3.
So far then, I'm thinking of the following:
Jonus - Squad Leader
Scimitar - Ion Torpedo, Cluster Missile
2x Scimitar - Cluster Missile
This leaves 11 points for upgrades such as bombs. 3 Proximity Mines and a Seismic Charge maybe? Keeping in mind that you can also then use Squad Leader to fire off the mines at PS6 if necessary...
So basically it's a cool ship and can be useful, but not as much anymore?
Hmmm......I would say that it doesn't suck, but it isn't the most amazing ship out there. It's got a lot of really cool options for ordenance and it all depends on the ordenance and the place in your squad. You need to ensure that the rest of your list works with it. If you have a few other close range fighters, the Tie Bomber might be able to sit back and launch a few shots. Or, you concentrate your fire all one one ship. The way missiles and torpedoes work is that they can slam into one thing and hurt it. So, it's good if you want to take one thing out fast. It's best used against things with low agility. That's capital ships, Y-wings, B-wings, and the YT-1300. They won't be the stars of your list, unless you went all out with Tie bombers. They are a support ship.
I like to take mine with a Concussion Missile, a Cluster Missile, and Munitions Failsafe. I'll have one close range and one long range option. I might throw in a Flachette Torpedo for when you face a Phantom.
Random thought that may help with my previous list of problems (and to which I expect everyone to say "Well, DUH!")...
I can't see Jonus needing his action so much, as it's not him who should be firing off missiles and the like. If we give him Squad Leader, you can then have a cheap Scimitar gaining its lock at PS6, hopefully after at least some of the opposing team have come into range 3.
So far then, I'm thinking of the following:
Jonus - Squad Leader
Scimitar - Ion Torpedo, Cluster Missile
2x Scimitar - Cluster Missile
This leaves 11 points for upgrades such as bombs. 3 Proximity Mines and a Seismic Charge maybe? Keeping in mind that you can also then use Squad Leader to fire off the mines at PS6 if necessary...
No Concussion Missiles?!?!?
5x Scimitars, and Howlrunner with Swarm Tactics is a beastly swarm.
4x Scimitars, and a Bounty Hunter with Recon Spec, Rebel Captive, or Weapons Engineer will beat any low agility squad in an untimed match.
If you want to maximize odrnance on them, watch nicsib's Rule of 11 x-wing tutorial on youtube.
Good discussion. A lot of ordnance on those puppies...
I'm kind of cheap when it comes to bombers. I see them like I see my Mighty Albino Space Antelope, as a tough filler ship to support a main force, or in Vessery's case, my brother from another mother.
I like to put a single missile or torp on them to put it at 20 points, and once I get the ordnance off, fly it straight into the 'scrum-dizzle' to block opponent's elite ships in the hopes of getting some nice shots with no focus/evade to worry about. With 6 hull and a decent agility, they survive longer than you expect.
With Target Lock as an option, they also help Vessery get his ability off too, so they are a handy, versatile little ship. I personally only have 1, and find that to be enough for me, but like the other posters have noted, rolling a couple in or using a small squad in Epic play seems quite effective.
http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/127983/bbbi
Thought this list might be fun to play.
Double ion some stuff, get close and while they drift drop some bombs.
Nice!
I would switch targeting computer to PtL and try to fit it in. Carnor with PtL and a hull upgrade could be a monster.
I like the pulse missiles too. They work on large or small ship alike. Set em up with a pulse and either drop bombs in front of them, or let Jax roll into range one and drop a 4 die shot on them with no evade or focus.
I think that would be a really fun list to play.
The problem isn't bombers so much as ordnance. The one shot nature combined with spending a target lock makes it an uncertain weapon for the cost.
Munitions failsafe helps but it increases the cost and uses a modification slot without making the weapon less variable.
Against high agility targets it's even less attractive.
That said there are some good ones out there. Flechette torpedoes stress the target whether you hit the target or not. Some missiles don't require you to spend the target lock to fire, only to have one.
The bomber at the moment isn't great. It's good, and well worth getting one or two. It will get better with new releases and new ordnance.
There was a thought a while back about a Fat swarm, whihc was basically stripped bombers, no ordance, just a bomb or two. Like the OP, I love the bomber. I am always surprised how well they hang in there in the furball. they always do better than I expect. Try flying 4 and throwing a prox mine on one or two. the prox mine works well with low PS ships, or you can try seismic if you prefer. Ii think the fat swarm is a straigfowar forgiving list that can also afford to joust because of its hull points. manuverability is better than you would think, due largely to barrel roll. There are some good alpha strike lists as well, but that is 1.) obvious to your opponent
2.) an experinced player will not allow you to get that long range ordance off.
If you are going to run ordnance, try cluster missle on for size. youll be able to get your target lock, continue to close range, then fire the cluster, drop a bomb prior to k turning. It can be very effective, but it is a brittle strategy.
Yes bombers are amaZing
You could run 5 with semic charges and wreck things.
As much as I love my bombers, the main problem I find with using ordnance is the fact that a lot of it of it requires a lock and is range 2-3. This means to get stuff off before you get rushed you usually need one of the following:
- A high PS, so that you get to lock after the opponent has moved into range. This usually means a named pilot (and Jonus doesn't benefit his own shooting).
- Deadeye, so that you can focus instead of lock to fire off your ordnance. As an EPT, this is only available to named pilots who are less likely to need it.
- Jendon handing out locks in advance. This ties up about 1/3 of your force on a support ship, and tells your opponent turns in advance which ships you're targetting.
- Ion your target. This way will have no chance to rush to range 1 in the turn after you lock onto it.
Action retention is useful in this case - you don't need to spend your target lock immediately on acquiring it. If we're talking a straightforward joust, this is what you'd do:
Turn 1: Close with opponent.
Turn 2: Close to within range 3. Acquire target locks. Shoot at target with primary weapons, hopefully stripping some shields.
Turn 3: 5 K-turn, if opponent is in range fire ordnance (or)
Turn 4: Short green move to clear stress and close with opponent, focus, fire ordnance, modify dice with focus.
OK, so it's not always viable (or reliable) to fly like this, but it's an option. Bombers are generally tough enough to survive a first turn of shooting before firing off their payload.
The problem isn't bombers so much as ordnance. The one shot nature combined with spending a target lock makes it an uncertain weapon for the cost.
Go with Homing Missile. You don't use the Target Lock. It's only 1 pt more.
The problem isn't bombers so much as ordnance. The one shot nature combined with spending a target lock makes it an uncertain weapon for the cost.
Go with Homing Missile. You don't use the Target Lock. It's only 1 pt more.
How do you not use the Target Lock?
this subject comes up from time to time. look closely at the card. You must have a target lock to fire, but you do not spend the target lock. That means you can use it to modify your roll. This makes the homing missle worth 1 more point in my opinion. most of the cards tell you to spend your target lock. Homing missle does not. welcome to awesome.
I would like to see a way to double lock the same target, preferably with 1 action, so you can shoot and modify at the same time, but with homing missle, it's sort of built in. Still expensive but superior, in my opinion.
In the upcoming TC open, I'll be using Scimitars with 2x Proton Rockets & Stealth device. I expect them to do pretty well, since a focus is (obviously) much easier to acquire than a TL for a PS2 ship... and 25 points for a 6hull/3aglity ship with two, focussed 5-dice attacks seems pretty damned efficient.
We'll see how it all comes out in the wash...