I've recently read some posts on dealing with and flying an HLC packing Outrider (notably http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/121712-thinking-about-the-donut-hole/). The most recent "Scum and Villainy podcast by some guys at Team Covenant also spent a good deal of time explaining how excellent the HLC Outrider is going to be. Thinking about both of these, it seems to me that while the HLC Outrider is going to be really very good, it has a huge weakness in the form of Ion weaponry. Not only does is suffer from the normal movement and action related issues with ion weapons, it suffers hugely from having attacks denied when it's movement becomes predictable.

I think that both Ion Cannons (and Turrets) and Ion Pulse Missiles will have big effects on the Outrider, and I wanted to discuss them:

1.) Like any large ship, if it is threatened with Ionization, it has a much restricted movement profile, because it can't risk being ionized off the board. In general, the HLC Outrider suffers much more from predictable movement than any other ship, because it has an area of zero Attack, which corresponds to the area of bonus Attack for any other ship.

2.) If ionized, it will be much easier to get ships into the HLC dead zone, and like all ionized ships, it will be much easier to deny actions, which is particularly rough on a large ship with a built in barrel roll that needs to keep distance in order to attack.

Dash Rendar + HLC Outrider is a 48 point investment, barring other upgrades, that is about as tough as a Firespray. If you can ionize it and deny it an action, even only once (Ion Pulse Missiles), you've got a window where you can put a huge amount of damage on the Outrider. The commonly fielded Howlrunner/Miniswarm (3 Academy TIEs and Howlrunner) at Range 1 will do about 7 damage in one round. You couldn't really rely on that sort of thing happening without ionization, but with ionization it becomes a lot more likely.

Long story short, if you're having trouble with an HLC Outrider, bring some ion weapons.

While I agree generally, ptl EU Dash will be a whole different animal. Landing an ion on that ship won't really tell you much about where it's going to end up.

Know what's going to work the outrider over high ps interceptors, they'll move after dash and with boost and barrel roll can stay in the donut hole.

Soontir pumping in four dice a turn will soon strip it's shields.

Intelligence Agents. Get to know how to use them, especiially with Sigmas that can decloak into many areas of the board. Dash won't be able to go anywhere when he is blocked.

It will if you block him (which becomes much easier if ionized). No Actions, no Barrel Roll, no Boost.

Yea but if you put in a position to be both ionized AND blocked you are flying him wrong, lol.

Yea but if you put in a position to be both ionized AND blocked you are flying him wrong, lol.

Care to explain more fully?

Concept is good, but in general, keeping anyone ionized is good, so it's a little bit of MOTO to me.

Another thing to consider, is your ion delivery options. Trick for me with missiles, is you have to be in the 'ring of death' to fire them (they're range 2-3) and the Outrider has two defense dice, which doesn't make ion automatic. Last thought, because most of these ion delivery options only do one damage, you're trading field goals for touchdowns in terms of damage.

Don't get me wrong, it's a reasonable idea and should have a good chance of success but it's easier said than done.

Cheers,

Rich

You also have to take into account that dash will not be flying alone. His squad mates may well make staying at R1 of him a very dangerous proposition.

An you need to put two ion tokens a round on him to make him fly straight.

Yea but if you put in a position to be both ionized AND blocked you are flying him wrong, lol.

Care to explain more fully?

They should be chasing you back and forth through rocks. Their mobility won't be anywhere near your mobility outside of a ptl interceptor. If you catch 1 ion then just don't leave him pointing towards a place their low-PS ships can go next turn. He gets to barrel roll and boost every turn!

I also believe the the HLC+Outrider combo is very good. I have a record 14-3 14-4 (just lost one )playing this squad:

Dash Rendar + Veteran Instincts + Outrider + Heavy Laser Cannon (49)
Chewbacca + Gunner + C-3PO + Millennium Falcon (51)


I can honestly say the Ion weapon is at least a better approach then trying to out PS and out maneuver Dash. If your only plan is to "just abuse the blind spot" your going to be in for a rude awakening. Getting into that range 1 and staying there may be more difficult than everyone thinks. The Outrider w/HLC is weak against a large number of attacks per round aka Swarms. All large ships at thier 50% of your squad have the same problem! even the fat Falcons. If you can manage to get the blind with the swarm awesome, you will likely have an overwhelming victory in that match. If every movement you make is to try and achieve the blind spot you will find you are being shot at while you will not have a return fire. The foreign arc covers the most area at range 3. The closer you get to targets the narrower this arc becomes. By getting your ships close you are granting a smaller area for the YT-2400 to escape. Range 2 is the sweet spot as you won't be giving up a defensive advantage to the Outrider while you get none. So really the long and short of it is, focus fire and you will prevail in the battle when facing the elusive Outrider.

I like this for a Dash list (mainly because the list is highly maneuverable.) Corran can hunt the ships who hunt Dash and if they go after Corran, and that isn't easy, Dash gets to hand out the pain.

Concept is good, but in general, keeping anyone ionized is good, so it's a little bit of MOTO to me.

Another thing to consider, is your ion delivery options. Trick for me with missiles, is you have to be in the 'ring of death' to fire them (they're range 2-3) and the Outrider has two defense dice, which doesn't make ion automatic. Last thought, because most of these ion delivery options only do one damage, you're trading field goals for touchdowns in terms of damage.

Don't get me wrong, it's a reasonable idea and should have a good chance of success but it's easier said than done.

Cheers,

Rich

Sure, a lot of the benefits of ionizing the Outrider are the same as ionizing any other ship, just more so, because range and actions are so much more important for the HLC Outrider than, for example, the Falcon.

Yea but if you put in a position to be both ionized AND blocked you are flying him wrong, lol.

Care to explain more fully?

They should be chasing you back and forth through rocks. Their mobility won't be anywhere near your mobility outside of a ptl interceptor. If you catch 1 ion then just don't leave him pointing towards a place their low-PS ships can go next turn. He gets to barrel roll and boost every turn!

Remember, Dash ignores rocks for Actions and Movement, but not for shooting. If he lands on a rock, he won't be attacking your ships. This limits areas where you can go, particularly with PTL which means there's only 4 maneuvers to choose from if you want to shed your stress. Ionization will be even nastier with PTL Dash, as you'll have stress, which means if you get ionized, the other guy doesn't even have to block you to deny actions, because you won't be shedding it via a green maneuver.