How to make PS11 Phantom with evade + focus for defense? for example...
(Whisper choose evade as normal action and fires with FCS + gunner)
and the oryginal super Whisper list:
"Whisper" (32)
Decoy (2)
Fire-Control System (2)
Gunner (5)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)
Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
"Mauler Mithel" (17)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Hull Upgrade (3)
Total: 99
View in Yet Another Squad Builder
Leaving you 22pts for?
Also now you have to keep Whisper at R1-2 of Vader.
Interesting, although having to stay close proximity to Vader makes your movements a bit predictable if you want to benefit from pre-Han/Wedge shooting. Is the Gunner/FCS combo overkill?
Vader would probably really appreciate an Engine Upgrade.
Leaving you 22pts for?
Also now you have to keep Whisper at R1-2 of Vader.
yeah, exacly 21pts to have initiative or 24 without rockets or more if You drop FCS+gunner for something else...
It will be wise to have 3rd high PS ship for better use of Decoy, like Mithel + VI + hull/stealth (21)
and I am not saying that is good I am saying that is POSSIBLE ;-) have fun!
Edited by TeokrataNooooo
I was biding my time to test this before I posted, but here goes: I was working on a PS11 Echo build, Vader's Girlfriend
Echo + Decoy + FCS + Gunner+ ACD
Vader + VI + EU
Mauler Mithel + Predator + Stealth
(100points, don't need no initiative)
What is really nice (same as OP's list) is that Vader moves after Echo and can easily slip into range 2 with boost + Barrel roll. Range 2 is quite permissive when it goes into every direction, it's not that hard to move Vader near Echo and it's not predictable either.
A more defensive variation would be:
Echo + Decoy + FCS + Recon Specialist + ACD
Vader + VI + EU
Academy Pilot x 2
(99points)
So far I had limited testing with it and I really liked it, even if I had disastrous rolls and bumped Echo against Han (being the last ship, so it couldn't cloak and died)
Against Han with vi you'd still need initiative. Just saying.
It's an interesting list, and high PS is obviously as important as it gets for Phantoms, but it seems to me as though you're paying an incredible amount of points in this list for something which could quite easily be irrelevant a large percentage of the time.
If you know for a fact that you'll be up against Wedge or Whisper VI, then sure,fair enough.
But suppose you end up playing against 4 x Blues with Advanced Sensors? Is the extra two points of pilot skill going to end up being worth the outlay?
It's an interesting list, and high PS is obviously as important as it gets for Phantoms, but it seems to me as though you're paying an incredible amount of points in this list for something which could quite easily be irrelevant a large percentage of the time.
If you know for a fact that you'll be up against Wedge or Whisper VI, then sure,fair enough.
But suppose you end up playing against 4 x Blues with Advanced Sensors? Is the extra two points of pilot skill going to end up being worth the outlay?
I was playing against blues with adv sensors and other 4 rebel list (little nasty, coz with Roark) - movement options and high PS (move last, shoot first) wins the game
yes, decoy for phantoms and durability of PS11 Vader with new proton rockets or EU is really cool
Edited by TeokrataI was playing against blues with adv sensors and other 4 rebel list (little nasty, coz with Roark) - movement options and high PS (move last, shoot first) wins the game
I agree - PS is a potential game winner. But in the above example Whisper would have higher PS than the Blues without the Decoy, Vader & VI combo - which asks the question, could those points have been better used elsewhere?
To put it another way, how many times is the Whisper/Decoy/Vader/VI combo going to directly lead to you having a higher PS than your opponent when you otherwise wouldn't? Not many, I'd imagine.
I was playing against blues with adv sensors and other 4 rebel list (little nasty, coz with Roark) - movement options and high PS (move last, shoot first) wins the game
I agree - PS is a potential game winner. But in the above example Whisper would have higher PS than the Blues without the Decoy, Vader & VI combo - which asks the question, could those points have been better used elsewhere?
To put it another way, how many times is the Whisper/Decoy/Vader/VI combo going to directly lead to you having a higher PS than your opponent when you otherwise wouldn't? Not many, I'd imagine.
In my meta there are many super Hans with PS10, PS10 Defenders with HLC and some time even Wedge with PS11 so shooting befor super Falcon is about win or loose, when phantom cost 40% of the list also PS11 5hp Vader with two actions (evade+focus for example) and some nasty rockets like cluster or proton is quite nice against 1 defend dice ships like Falcon, b-wing or lambda. I sense some new potential here for breaking PS11 super Han dominance. The fact that option is with old forgotten TIE adv lord Vader is really funny ;-)
Edited by Teokrata
I was playing against blues with adv sensors and other 4 rebel list (little nasty, coz with Roark) - movement options and high PS (move last, shoot first) wins the game
I agree - PS is a potential game winner. But in the above example Whisper would have higher PS than the Blues without the Decoy, Vader & VI combo - which asks the question, could those points have been better used elsewhere?
To put it another way, how many times is the Whisper/Decoy/Vader/VI combo going to directly lead to you having a higher PS than your opponent when you otherwise wouldn't? Not many, I'd imagine.
I think that in the current meta there's a serious bidding war for high PS caused by Advanced Cloaking Device. PS11 outbids everything except Han+VI (because I consider Wedge+VI or Soontir+VI not really as viable, they need that EPT for something else), and even then you get a chance for initiative if you go for 99 points.
What about costs? Starting from a Phantom mini-swarm, you basically switch Howlrunner + Academy into Vader. You basically lose 2 attack dice, but don't lose so much on defense because Vader has shields. It could be reasonably argued that Vader makes up for other deficiencies by having either a *good* 2 die attack (or 3 on range1 - focus with TL), or very good outmaneuvering options (boost + barrel roll), or really good defense (focus + evade). Of course, none of those are all at once, but he has all those options available, plus mixing between.
I would also note that, for Vader, it is more important to move last than to shoot first, and he still gets to do that.
I was playing against blues with adv sensors and other 4 rebel list (little nasty, coz with Roark) - movement options and high PS (move last, shoot first) wins the game
I agree - PS is a potential game winner. But in the above example Whisper would have higher PS than the Blues without the Decoy, Vader & VI combo - which asks the question, could those points have been better used elsewhere?
To put it another way, how many times is the Whisper/Decoy/Vader/VI combo going to directly lead to you having a higher PS than your opponent when you otherwise wouldn't? Not many, I'd imagine.
In my meta there are many super Hans with PS10, PS10 Defenders with HLC and some time even Wedge with PS11 so shooting befor super Falcon is about win or loose, when phantom cost 40% of the list also PS11 5hp Vader with two actions (evade+focus for example) and some nasty rockets like cluster or proton is quite nice against 1 defend dice ships like Falcon, b-wing or lambda. I sense some new potential here for breaking PS11 super Han dominance. The fact with old forgotten TIE adv is really funny ;-)
I'm also hoping that whatever fix they find for the Advanced will benefit this list as well, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed 
some other list using Decoy and PS11 Darth Vader:
"Echo" (30)
Decoy (2)
Advanced Cloaking Device (4)
Darth Vader (29)
Veteran Instincts (1)
Proton Rockets (3)
Soontir Fel (27)
Push the Limit (3)
Total: 99
View in Yet Another Squad Builder
all lists are about arc dodging move last and shoot first glass cannon Imperial strategy
Edited by TeokrataIn my meta there are many super Hans with PS10, PS10 Defenders with HLC and some time even Wedge with PS11 so shooting befor super Falcon is about win or loose, when phantom cost 40% of the list also PS11 5hp Vader with two actions (evade+focus for example) and some nasty rockets like cluster or proton is quite nice against 1 defend dice ships like Falcon, b-wing or lambda. I sense some new potential here for breaking PS11 super Han dominance. The fact that option is with old forgotten TIE adv lord Vader is really funny ;-)
Fair enough! If you're seeing a huge number of high PS builds running about then a list like this makes total sense.
Although it does beg the question where the PS arms race will go next - Roark everywhere?
I like your use of pictures!
I do think it will be hard to keep vader I range. Engine Upgrade perhaps. Worth testing but get another priority target or a meat shield.
I like your use of pictures!
I do think it will be hard to keep vader I range. Engine Upgrade perhaps. Worth testing but get another priority target or a meat shield.
Mithel or Soontir works for real decoy target and Vader with 5hp and focus+evade isn't that easy to kill
Not as good as you think
I prefer not to have my Phantoms be tied down.
Using an ability such as PtL, swarm tactics, or Decoy really limits your movement, and counteracts what a Phantom is suppose to do, and that is being unpredictable.
Especially whisper who already can be easier to pinpoint, and if you use echo in this scenario your even hindering it even more
Edited by Krynn007Silly PS11 Phantoms.
This one goes to 12!
Silly PS11 Phantoms.
This one goes to 12!
Known and played in my meta, also played against - weakness?
Roark died first ;-) but with Biggs could do the work done :-P
Edited by Teokrata
Silly PS11 Phantoms.
This one goes to 12!
Known and played in my meta, also played against - weakness?
Roark died first ;-) but with Biggs could do the work done :-P
Could try something like: Roark + Ion, Biggs, Chewie + Tactical Jammer + C-3P0 + MF title + Predator. 99 points
Or for a completely different take, when wave 5 hits you can try:
Roark + Ion
Eaden Vrill + Gunner
Hobbie + R3-A2
Bandit
Not as good as you think
I prefer not to have my Phantoms be tied down.
Using an ability such as PtL, swarm tactics, or Decoy really limits your movement, and counteracts what a Phantom is suppose to do, and that is being unpredictable.
Especially whisper who already can be easier to pinpoint, and if you use echo in this scenario your even hindering it even more
Range 2 is not range 3 mind you, but it's still a lot. Vader can also travel a long distance, so as long as you plan ahead, you can have him keep up. With Echo it's not like you consider every decloak, since with a single selected maneuver 1 or 2 will get a you a good combination, and maybe 1-2 for an "escape plan", so it seems reasonable for Vader to find himself in range 2 of the "attack" combinations of decloak+maneuver, especially if he has barrel roll + boost. I'm more worried about him having a good shot or eyeballing range 2 so that he can use other actions, than actually making it into range 2.