I have the AoR book and can't seem to find any info on this. If you could, I would be appreciative of someone informing me where I can find the info on Knight Level games and how to use said info.

Knight level is a suggested option in the F&D beta for playing Force characters at a slightly more experienced level to start.

Ah, kinda wished they'd put that in all three finished rule sets.

150 xp 10k worth of credits. assigned after character gen. is completed.

150 xp 10k worth of credits. assigned after character gen. is completed.

Adding to this, FaD characters in particular get the choice of a basic lightsaber (which is restricted) in place of the 10k of credits to spend on non-restricted gear/vehicles.

Ah, kinda wished they'd put that in all three finished rule sets.

Well it's only really needed for F&D, imo. The other games have a standard starting point for character power levels and there's no particular reason to start higher as you're already a capable viable character, but there's also nothing stopping you if you want. With F&D you're going to especially have people picking it up and not wanting to start at the level of the other two games but to run a "Jedi" game where everyone starts off as a full Jedi. So you get the guidance for that.

Ah, kinda wished they'd put that in all three finished rule sets.

Well it's only really needed for F&D, imo. The other games have a standard starting point for character power levels and there's no particular reason to start higher as you're already a capable viable character, but there's also nothing stopping you if you want. With F&D you're going to especially have people picking it up and not wanting to start at the level of the other two games but to run a "Jedi" game where everyone starts off as a full Jedi. So you get the guidance for that.

Read: Whiny special snowflakes. I completely agree that this should be in all or be in none. But I don't need special rules telling me how to give my players lightsabers. GMs are going to or not. And I don't need special guidance for XP either, since as an experienced gamer, I am perfectly capable of picking a number and giving it to everyone.

I don't see why you can make a perfectly viable character in EoE or AoR but can't in F&D, without using the word Jedi or drumming up other power fantasies. It's just pandering. But maybe if this option showed up in the other two game, it wouldn't be so completely obvious.

I doubt it was something they came up with three years ago and deliberately decided to leave it out of the first two rulebooks.

It's pretty clearly something that occurred to the developers specifically to allow starting Force-sensitive characters to begin with lightsabers and some Force powers.

It's actually 9K credits as of the previous update -- someone probably realized that 10K can buy you a fully-modded saber from EotE...

Also, nothing stops a group from agreeing to a "Knight level" game with characters from all sources. It might even be a preferred campaign style for seasoned players, much as grognards oft begin adventures above "level 1."

Finally, making this level explicit allows FFG to publish adventures written for advanced characters, rather than making everything appropriate for characters near starting level.

I don't see why you can make a perfectly viable character in EoE or AoR but can't in F&D, without using the word Jedi or drumming up other power fantasies.

You can make a perfectly viable character at chargen with F&D. But they aren't Jedi. You seem to be misinterpreting the point.

You can make a perfectly viable character at chargen with F&D. But they aren't Jedi. You seem to be misinterpreting the point.

They won't be yanking SSDs out of the sky or Force Choking people over videochat.

Ah, kinda wished they'd put that in all three finished rule sets.

Well it's only really needed for F&D, imo. The other games have a standard starting point for character power levels and there's no particular reason to start higher as you're already a capable viable character, but there's also nothing stopping you if you want. With F&D you're going to especially have people picking it up and not wanting to start at the level of the other two games but to run a "Jedi" game where everyone starts off as a full Jedi. So you get the guidance for that.

Read: Whiny special snowflakes. I completely agree that this should be in all or be in none. But I don't need special rules telling me how to give my players lightsabers. GMs are going to or not. And I don't need special guidance for XP either, since as an experienced gamer, I am perfectly capable of picking a number and giving it to everyone.

I don't see why you can make a perfectly viable character in EoE or AoR but can't in F&D, without using the word Jedi or drumming up other power fantasies. It's just pandering. But maybe if this option showed up in the other two game, it wouldn't be so completely obvious.

Most likely this is something they have figured out over the last 3 years. Would you rather they didn't give it to us at all.

Knight level is a suggested option in the F&D beta for playing Force characters at a slightly more experienced level to start.

And nothing says that if a group wants a mix of characters from EotE, AoR, and FaD that the muggles can't benefit from the bonus 150 XP and 9K credits as well.

I've been toying with a few different builds using EotE and AoR, and that 150 XP by itself goes a long ways towards making that particularly PC quite the badass in their field of endeavor. Examples thus far included a dual-wielding Mirialan Hired Gun/Merc Soldier (twin H-7 equalizers and superior armored clothing), a Mando-themed Bounty Hunter/Gadgeteer (laminate armor, jet pack, and beefed-up blaster carbine), a Trandoshan Soldier/Commando (hand-to-hand beast), a Chiss Commander/Commodore (very effective), a Duros Explorer/Fringer (again, very effective), a Twi'lek Smuggler/Scoundrel/Pilot (fun build with lots of options but not much specialty), a Colonist/Marshal (good in a fight or at talking), and a Sullustan Ace/Driver (awesome at the stick of any craft and at patching up their ride).

I suspect that the "knight-level" option will eventually get rolled out to all the other books once the FaD Beta process is done and said rules have been better finalized.

You can make a perfectly viable character at chargen with F&D. But they aren't Jedi. You seem to be misinterpreting the point.

Exactly. They're just starting characters and are prety weak in the Force.

They won't be yanking SSDs out of the sky or Force Choking people over videochat.

Neither will knights.

I'd point out the limits of even 500 XP characters, but you should alreaddy realize them, as you are in that game. "Knight level" is peanuts.

I'd point out the limits of even 500 XP characters, but you should alreaddy realize them, as you are in that game. "Knight level" is peanuts.

I'd point out the limits of even 500 XP characters, but you should alreaddy realize them, as you are in that game. "Knight level" is peanuts.

"Knight level" is indeed peanuts.

When life gives you peanuts, make peanut butter. Yum!

When life gives you peanuts, make peanut butter. Yum!

I still wish they would relabel it to Advanced level instead of Knight level. Knight just implies far to much in regards to Star Wars. With that said, I have a friend who will joining my EotE game and I'll be giving him "Knight" level xp so that he will be in the same general area that the other characters are at when we get back to that game.

I don't see why you can make a perfectly viable character in EoE or AoR but can't in F&D, without using the word Jedi or drumming up other power fantasies.

You can make a perfectly viable character at chargen with F&D. But they aren't Jedi. You seem to be misinterpreting the point.

Nope. That was exactly the point I was trying to make. You can make just as viable a character in F&D as you can in AoR or EoE. You don't need Knight Play or to be called a Jedi in order to be viable.

I still wish they would relabel it to Advanced level instead of Knight level. Knight just implies far to much in regards to Star Wars. With that said, I have a friend who will joining my EotE game and I'll be giving him "Knight" level xp so that he will be in the same general area that the other characters are at when we get back to that game.

While it still makes Force users unnecessarily special comparied to the rest of the line for having this option (again, I say all or none), I completely agree that the word "Knight" is incredibly loaded and stirs up all of the wrong images for this (does that mean you were a Jedi Knight?). Calling it Advanced or something equally neutral at least only means that - advanced play.

Nope. That was exactly the point I was trying to make. You can make just as viable a character in F&D as you can in AoR or EoE. You don't need Knight Play or to be called a Jedi in order to be viable.

The problem with F&D is that it creates a legitimate character concept that does not exist (and maybe isn't even needed) with the other 2 games, meaning the adavanced force user (not necessarily a Jedi Knight). Chargen allows you to build Luke Skywalker halfway into Episode IV, ie a starting force user, with little to no force power and/or a really basic ligthsaber skills. But what if someone wants to make as character like Kanan Jarrus? you absolutely need those incresed xp to create that character cause he's much more advanced than Episode IV Luke. And that idea isn't limited to a Jedi Knight, but it can easily apply to Dathomir Witches or Jensaarai. Basically every charcter concept that needs both developed Force Powers and combat prowess needs a "Knight Level" starting option, in my opinion.

Sure, fine. And you can do it a chargen, it will just cost you something. It's a bit like complaining that your "build a ship and fly it too" concept can't be realized at chargen because mechanic and pilot are different trees.

You do not have enough xp at chargen to make it work. After raising stats, there are simply not enough xp left to buy upgraded Force powers and saber talents. I'm not even going into buying multiple specs at chargen cause by doing that you really are left with too few xp to do anything. You probably do not realize that Force powers are a huge xp sink for the limitied amount of xp you can spend at chargen after raising stats.

So no, you can't create Kanan at chargen, not matter how much you try, the only thing you can create are half-made jedi that concentrate on either using the Force or swinging their sabers.

On second thought a Nightsister/Witch would probably be less affected cause they don't use ligthsabers and don't need the saber spec. So yeah you can build a viable Nightsister at chargen.

After raising stats

You are making the mistake of assuming that every character concept should be fulfillable at character creation. Moreover you're making the mistake of assuming that a particular character from the canon is *supposed* to be a "starting level" character. Not every concept is going to be fully realized at character creation. That doesn't mean its not "viable".

To put this on point for you, you can't make Han Solo at character creation. He's a pilot, and a mechanic, and the archetypal scoundrel. That doesn't mean that "Han Solo" isn't a viable concept at pregen. It just means that he's either going to have to just be average at some of those things for a little while or really poor at everything except for a few specific tricks.

After raising stats

This right here is your critical mistake.

This. I can't like this more than once, but this. One thing that I willl hands down give FaD is that they made me want to spend starting xp on something other than stats, which in edge and rebellion, I have never, ever, ever once been tempted to do.

Not only that, but if you do a knight level game, and don't spend more than 40-50 starting xp on stats, you can make some remarkably capable force users, easily with FR 2 or 3.

Of course, not every horse will drink the water so...

which in edge and rebellion, I have never, ever, ever once been tempted to do.