I was just wondering something about Astropaths, soul-binding and the damage done to the eyes.

In Dark Heresy, there was the "Optical Ruptures" sanctioning side-effect, which sounds suspiciously familiar to the damage that Astropaths suffer to their sensory nerves, particularly the eyes. In DH, however, your ruptured eyes are replaced by cybernetic implants. Is this viable for Astropaths as well? Or is it that the nerve itself is irrevocably damaged? I've seen some pictures of Astropaths with perfect sight, some with blind eyes, and some with no eyes whatsoever, so I'm getting confused. Can an Astropath somehow regain his/her sight, and does he/she have to lose it in the first place? Would cybernetic implants suffice?

I'm asking all of this because I would like to think that my adept-turned-psyker, who lost her eyes already to the sanctioning, could transition to an Astropath and still keep her cybernetic implants and do her duty on a Rogue Trader ship. If not, at least can she keep the implants for cosmetic reasons? I really don't like the empty socket thing, even if it's a "mark of honour" for some.

Also, can Astropaths read? Books? I know they can perceive things with their heightened senses, but reading is a bit different than perceiving.

I think you are mistaking the Rite of Sanctioning with the Rite of Soulbinding. It is the rite of soulbinding that burns out the soon to be astropath's eyes. And an astropath can see perfectly fine, under special abilities they have the See without eyes special ability, stating that they can perceive the world as if they had eyes, including being limited by walls and being able to see color. So yes they are able to read, and i would think it would be pretty superfluous since they can already see.

When i gm i assume that astropaths use their psychic powers to perceive the world around them, ala using Psyscience, and are therefore actually blind in the presence of Null rods, untouchables and the like. It is probably not outside the scope of the setting for an already sanctioned psyker to undergo the ritual of soulbinding, but that would involve yet another long and perilous journey to Holy Terra, and you would likely need some powerful backer within the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to actually get a seat among the astropaths to be.

Now this bit is merely speculation on my part, if your optical implants were in place during the ritual they would likely be fried, but i would not consider replacements out of the question.

I was just wondering something about Astropaths, soul-binding and the damage done to the eyes.

In Dark Heresy, there was the "Optical Ruptures" sanctioning side-effect, which sounds suspiciously familiar to the damage that Astropaths suffer to their sensory nerves, particularly the eyes. In DH, however, your ruptured eyes are replaced by cybernetic implants. Is this viable for Astropaths as well? Or is it that the nerve itself is irrevocably damaged? I've seen some pictures of Astropaths with perfect sight, some with blind eyes, and some with no eyes whatsoever, so I'm getting confused. Can an Astropath somehow regain his/her sight, and does he/she have to lose it in the first place? Would cybernetic implants suffice?

I'm asking all of this because I would like to think that my adept-turned-psyker, who lost her eyes already to the sanctioning, could transition to an Astropath and still keep her cybernetic implants and do her duty on a Rogue Trader ship. If not, at least can she keep the implants for cosmetic reasons? I really don't like the empty socket thing, even if it's a "mark of honour" for some.

Also, can Astropaths read? Books? I know they can perceive things with their heightened senses, but reading is a bit different than perceiving.

To answer your questions, yes, Astropaths can replace their burnt-out eyes, but few do, because the Rite of Soulbinding is not only deeply harrowing, but also a soul-searing religious experience, and most astropaths consider the touch of the God-Emperor and their scars a blessing, of a sort.

Or at least I remember reading such.

And yes, Astropaths can read. They are not adversely affected by their loss of sight in any way, and compensate by "seeing" through the warp. The only thing they are blind to are soulless people and objects without a warp presence.

And yes, Astropaths can read. They are not adversely affected by their loss of sight in any way, and compensate by "seeing" through the warp. The only thing they are blind to are soulless people and objects without a warp presence.

I remember reading somewhere that the tau have a very weak warp presense. Does that mean they appeare vague or partialy invisible to an astropath?

And yes, Astropaths can read. They are not adversely affected by their loss of sight in any way, and compensate by "seeing" through the warp. The only thing they are blind to are soulless people and objects without a warp presence.

I remember reading somewhere that the tau have a very weak warp presense. Does that mean they appeare vague or partialy invisible to an astropath?

The way I understand it, Astropaths don't *just* perceive things directly through the warp as such - they are actively using their powers - albeit warp-based - to perceive the surrounding world, to some degree or in some way. After all, walls generally don't have souls at all, and written parchment certainly doesn't. I guess most things have some sort of warp presence, or else this wouldn't work at all.

However, blanks, nulls and pariahs are holes in the warp. They actively negate the warp at least to some degree (depending on fluff and mechanicus), which is why they can't be seen.

After all, if what astropaths saw were people's literal souls or direct warp presence, it would be like having permanent free-action Psyniscience +100 at all times. Just looking at anything possessed by a daemon or influenced by the warp would arguably turn them insane.

So while they'd no doubt be able to determine that Tau have "small souls" (soulless commies as they are), I don't think they should have a penalty to see them, because of it.

I think you are mistaking the Rite of Sanctioning with the Rite of Soulbinding. It is the rite of soulbinding that burns out the soon to be astropath's eyes. And an astropath can see perfectly fine, under special abilities they have the See without eyes special ability, stating that they can perceive the world as if they had eyes, including being limited by walls and being able to see color. So yes they are able to read, and i would think it would be pretty superfluous since they can already see.

When i gm i assume that astropaths use their psychic powers to perceive the world around them, ala using Psyscience, and are therefore actually blind in the presence of Null rods, untouchables and the like. It is probably not outside the scope of the setting for an already sanctioned psyker to undergo the ritual of soulbinding, but that would involve yet another long and perilous journey to Holy Terra, and you would likely need some powerful backer within the Adeptus Astra Telepathica to actually get a seat among the astropaths to be.

Now this bit is merely speculation on my part, if your optical implants were in place during the ritual they would likely be fried, but i would not consider replacements out of the question.

No no, I am quite clear on the difference between sanctioning and soul-binding . Just check Dark Heresy sanctioning side effects, it's there - optical ruptures is one of the possibilities (which is my case). To be honest, I really don't mind the whole "soul-binding is a spiritual and religious experience", but quite frankly - I would rather my Astropath gets some cybernetic eyes just for cosmetics at least. After all, she really likes screwing Rogue Traders and the like (which is in her backstory). And having no eyes.... well, that's not really erotic xD

As for the journey - she already was under threat of execution as a "rogue Psyker". I don't think she would mind going back to Terra. Not to mention, all psykers NEED to go through the sanctioning process, while the soul-binding is a completely different ritual for chosen individuals She was a voidborn raised on a Rogue Trader ship, so it's only natural that she would like to become an Astropath

To answer your questions, yes, Astropaths can replace their burnt-out eyes, but few do, because the Rite of Soulbinding is not only deeply harrowing, but also a soul-searing religious experience, and most astropaths consider the touch of the God-Emperor and their scars a blessing, of a sort.

Or at least I remember reading such.

And yes, Astropaths can read. They are not adversely affected by their loss of sight in any way, and compensate by "seeing" through the warp. The only thing they are blind to are soulless people and objects without a warp presence.

Well.... not that I disrespect the God-Emperor, but..... I still like my eyes xD All those puny and religious astropaths can be proud of their scars. My Adept-turned-Psyker takes comfort in knowing that not only has she received some of the Emperor's immenese power, but she is sexy and exotic enough to screw hot Rogue Traders I mean, just because she's a psyker, it doesn't mean she can't have fun from time to time She is quite sexy, mind you. In her own way. Long, wavy auburn hair, pale skin, large,, violet eyes, a nerdy and innocent disposition All she needs is some nice, violet cybernetic eyes to accentuate her presence

Your Astropath need not lose her eyes if that isn't the way you want to play her. Per the rules of Soul-Binding (pg 367, Core Rulebook), there are other effects as well, including Insanity, permanent damage to a certain Characteristic, and mutation (if you follow the Ruinous Powers). Per fluff, the vast majority of Astropaths lose their eyes, but that is not the case with all of them. If you want your Astropath to keep her eyes, choose another damaging effect instead.

Of course, if your character still has her eyes, you don't gain the benefits of See without Eyes , and likely wouldn't have the Heightened Senses (Sound) Talent , but hey, you can still see Blanks and Pariahs at least

Edit : forgot that you said your character already lost her eyes. In any case, same difference, you can either choose to have the eye replacements be cosmetic only (retaining the benefits of the above trait and talent), or choose to have them actually work, and likely lose See without Eyes . If your character really wants to get new eyes, then have her get new eyes.

Do note that to actually become Soulbound to the God-Emperor, your sanctioning is quite special, doubly so if you aren't actually an Astropath, or trained as one.

Honestly, I cannot see it happening in a believable fashion unless you go through the proper rites and rituals, including The Assignment and being put through the Scholastia Psykana. For all intents and purposes, this would retire the character for years.

I doubt even the High Lords of Terra could go "Hey, I have this man in my retinue, he's a psyker, I'd like to march him in front of the Emperor, no biggie, just throw him in with the other Astropaths". and wham bham, Astropath.

I doubt even the High Lords of Terra could go "Hey, I have this man in my retinue, he's a psyker, I'd like to march him in front of the Emperor, no biggie, just throw him in with the other Astropaths". and wham bham, Astropath.

Actually, any psyker not judged worthy of being a Primaris psyker is thrown in to be Secundus Psykers, and given soul-bounding as a form of protection to make the majority of psykers useful to the Imperium. Any not strong enough to fit a purpose are used as fodder for the Empies appetite. =P

I doubt even the High Lords of Terra could go "Hey, I have this man in my retinue, he's a psyker, I'd like to march him in front of the Emperor, no biggie, just throw him in with the other Astropaths". and wham bham, Astropath.

Actually, any psyker not judged worthy of being a Primaris psyker is thrown in to be Secundus Psykers, and given soul-bounding as a form of protection to make the majority of psykers useful to the Imperium. Any not strong enough to fit a purpose are used as fodder for the Empies appetite. =P

Not true - not everyone that can't become a Primaris Psyker becomes an Astropath. Only the strongest of sanctioned psykers become primaris psykers.

A lot of psykers become Sanctioned Psykers (although arguably, any psyker that is sanctioned in one form or another is a "sanctioned psyker" - I never liked the terminology and naming in this case) and serve in the Imperial Guard.

Those that are not strong or "secure" enough to become sanctioned psykers that can serve in the Imperial Guard (or similar) tend to become Astropaths, which are actually all on the lower end of The Assignment. The Soul-binding is specifically to brace their resistance against the powers and influences of the Warp, allowing them to act as glorified telefaxes without going irrevocably insane in the process, every time they peer into the warp.

Some amongst these end up serving in the Choir of the Astronomican.

Those yet below this level, or psykers that are downright unsafe, gets turned into Throne-chow, powering the failing systems of the Golden Throne.

Some Lexicanum on the subject:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Psyker

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sanctioned_Psyker

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Primaris_Psyker

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Astropath

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Assignment

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Scholastia_Psykana

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Adeptus_Astra_Telepathica

And Astropath Transcendents, IIRC, are ones that probably could have been Primarius Psychers, but got shuffled into the Astropath line for whatever reason. Because of their superior strength and control, they are favored by Rogue Traders (who often have to send messages in particularly unsafe locations and particularly long distances.) and the Navy (for not dissimilar reasons).

On the original subject. Even if they're not used for sight, there's no reason I can think of why a cosmetic cybernetic eye couldn't be placed in the head of an Astropath. It just may not do anything other then track what your 'looking' at.

My understanding, although I don't think its specified in any Canon, is that this particular Soul Binding ritual doesn't just burn out the eyes or the optic nerve, but actually 'repurposes' a large portion of visual cortex of the brain to allow the Astropath to hear the distant and weak telepathic projections in the warp. That's also my explanation for why the see normally - they're psyence is being directly translated into vision.

[...]

My understanding, although I don't think its specified in any Canon, is that this particular Soul Binding ritual doesn't just burn out the eyes or the optic nerve, but actually 'repurposes' a large portion of visual cortex of the brain to allow the Astropath to hear the distant and weak telepathic projections in the warp. That's also my explanation for why the see normally - they're psyence is being directly translated into vision.

I love this explanation and it is now my headcanon.

Do note that to actually become Soulbound to the God-Emperor, your sanctioning is quite special, doubly so if you aren't actually an Astropath, or trained as one.

Honestly, I cannot see it happening in a believable fashion unless you go through the proper rites and rituals, including The Assignment and being put through the Scholastia Psykana. For all intents and purposes, this would retire the character for years.

I doubt even the High Lords of Terra could go "Hey, I have this man in my retinue, he's a psyker, I'd like to march him in front of the Emperor, no biggie, just throw him in with the other Astropaths". and wham bham, Astropath.

What? Are you telling someone that their character concept is "unrealistic" or implausible? That's my line! You stole my line! Now, just to be contrary I have to take the side of the namby-pamby crowd.

Did that mean guy hurt your feelings? It doesn't matter if you win or lose as long as you're having fun. Rules are for people with control issues. Hang on, I have a trophy right here with your name on it.

[...]

My understanding, although I don't think its specified in any Canon, is that this particular Soul Binding ritual doesn't just burn out the eyes or the optic nerve, but actually 'repurposes' a large portion of visual cortex of the brain to allow the Astropath to hear the distant and weak telepathic projections in the warp. That's also my explanation for why the see normally - they're psyence is being directly translated into vision.

I love this explanation and it is now my headcanon.

I agree. That is the only valid explanation I have ever heard besides "The Warp did it/Empy did it.." God kows i had nothing imaginative or insightful to use besides "Magic Warp Bulls**t."

[...]

My understanding, although I don't think its specified in any Canon, is that this particular Soul Binding ritual doesn't just burn out the eyes or the optic nerve, but actually 'repurposes' a large portion of visual cortex of the brain to allow the Astropath to hear the distant and weak telepathic projections in the warp. That's also my explanation for why the see normally - they're psyence is being directly translated into vision.

I love this explanation and it is now my headcanon.

I agree. That is the only valid explanation I have ever heard besides "The Warp did it/Empy did it.." God kows i had nothing imaginative or insightful to use besides "Magic Warp Bulls**t."

It helps if you wave your fingers while you shout that at your players.