So i built this zhao deck recently and it seems to be doing really well but everyone i play against is complaining about it because im running alot of broken or overpowered cards but one thing in paticular that they seem to be complaining about the most isnt chesters backing or bitter rivals or rejection but its Twilight Embrace......yeah thats what i said!

You know its the cards that has the 2 card combo enhance that RFGs 2 cards in your opponents staging area and the other if it deals damage enhance to hit 2 more.....

My question is does everyone else thinks its that bad? is it broken in any sort of way....its 6 diff and requires 2 cards for it to be 100% effective i just dont see how its that bad

I did however hit someone with it completely combo'd on the second turn and wiped his entire staging area and he scooped that game....i kinda felt bad after that

Twilight Embrace is in no way a bad card.

It makes Zhao Daiyu worth playing, and if you can pull off that combo enhance with a 6 handsize character then you deserve the massive leg up over the opponent.

I felt bad for Defender Looping somebody in a deck that has over 5 different win conditions =/

I also felt bad for winning both Life Patch and Earth Patch with two decks that did not attack, and I won with a full tiebreaker both times, I may add.

As Arch said, Daiyu is a hard character because she relies on support, as opposed to a lot of other characters who LIKE support, but can be their own one-man army.

Twilight Embrace in particular gives you an incentive to run Daiyu, which, judging from some regionals reports, some people are experimenting, interestingly enough, with her pack version (screw anti-discard, her promo is beastin).

Also, the way I see it, anytime you pull off any Combo (not named Knight Breaker), you deserve some props, ESPECIALLY if you pulled it off while facing Bitter Rivals.

Props to running Daiyu, and I hope to hear some more good news. 6 handers will always have it rough until they start getting either mad abilities, or mad support (like Kyo as people are discovering with Red Lotus). Daiyu in particular since her health is notably lower than any of her other 6 handsize brethren.

yeah see thats what im saying i dont think its that bad either but i even had a guy today come over to watch our game who had played UFS for a while at the beginning but stopped after like the first block cycle look at it when i played it and say WTF i cant believe they printed something that good after readin over my chesters bitter rivals and everything else in my 20 card staging area

Nothin' reallly new to add to the discussion, just agreeing with what's been said: TE isn't a broken card. It's powerful, sure, and it makes Daiyu worth playing.

But, there are plenty of ways to stop its E, Combo E, and it's synergy with Daiyu's R to be broken, imo.

Synergy with Zhao Daiyu's R?

Screw that! How about it's synergy with Drifter? =D

Its not broken its just really good. Its a character only that supports its character in her specific and unique theme. Its a controling card for a controlling character. There are lots of ways to get around it and then more ways to deal with it.

Well my ZD deck here and NY for the month I ran it had 0 losses and 1 draw(with Fred/Protoadict) so I kno what ur goin through

I really don't see the card being that over the top. Honestly with all the cc hax there are combo is really hard to do in the first place, especially with a 6hs.

You know for what its worth, the combo is nice and all when you use the attack as a finisher, but I have found that it's almost always preferable to just throw the attack on your turn 2 and BRT or KFT it through and remove 2. It's like an Ispin on evil that dosent give momentum and does way more damage.

well im glad to see that its not as bad as everyone is making it out to be i almost thought about taking the deck apart but its just so good and i dont even have a fourth of either of her UR attacks

Maybe its just the way i play the deck that makes everyone a little mad idk either way im strongly thinking about playing it at any regionals i go 2 if i go 2 another the first one i went 2 didnt turn out so hot : P

Having also played ZD and also having a set of her cards I can say that, while powerful, it is so not a problem card. If anything you will probably have problems with actually playing the combo E to get the full potential of the card cuz there are not many good low atks in her symbols.

Also Immortal-JyNxX and Da_ghetto_gamer if you could I would love to talk to you guys about your versions of ZD and see how it compairs to mine. I have it posted currently. I havn't found to many other ZD players so any input that you guys can give would be appreciated.

yeah i looked at yours a little while ago and its not that much different from mine but there are differences ill post mine in a bit and you can tell me what you think

Here's another problem of Twilight Embrace: Red Lotus is ran in 4s in almost any deck that can run it (including off-symbol characters), and Red Lotus LOZL at Twilight even more than Ira-Spinta.

After reading this, I've become comepelled to build the perfect Zhao Daiyu. Right now it's simply a debate of Chaos, Evil, or hybrid?

MarcoPulleaux said:

While true i havent run into it as a problem yet i cant usually make them commit it pretty much when i feel like it with the cards in my deck

Also yeah chaos evil hybrid is the way to go ive almost got a tri symbol build going but it still runs into some major problems...like chun li or its lack of high blocks

MarcoPulleaux said:

Most Set 12 characters are in that boat.

Homme Chapeau said:

I disagree, it's simply that most set 12 characters simply aren't that good, or rather, aren't as good as the ones we had prior. Everytime I hear "6 handsize" I always think "there better be a good reason to run them", and more often than not, there isn't. The cure to a low handsize isn't high vitality, it's decent abilities (**Huitzil** is an example of high vitality being mitigated by meager abilities, *Hugo* is an example of high vitality being backed by compensating abilities).

Ghetto Gamer, I plan on doing my own research project tonight. The problem I have is simply that draw in this game is just too important, and Bigger They Are needs to be ran in 4s with Zhao, but I also like Bitter Rivals as it helps pass attacks through. We'll see, but I personally like promo better than pack. Pack is ALL reliant on her support, whereas promo doesn't need an ounce of her own support to absolutely wreck face.

i know that pack isnt as good as promo and thats why im running the promo in the deck because she is just amazing but i first off i dont have enough of the pack one to try and stack it and second the deck kind of works around her react alot and i need it as soon as i can get it throwing 11 damage twilight embraces turn 2 or 3 is really fun and can cripple your opponent since there stagin area is pretty much gone at that point

Well, couple of things...

1) Stacking isn't a necessity. Personally, I'm considering using promo as the starter, with 1x of the pack in the deck. That way I can (assumedly) win the first one, and when they inevitably side-in their anti discard, I just switch to the promo so that their anti-discard means next to nothing. I can also stack should I ever draw the lone copy (although that might give away the element of surprise when it comes to sidedecking).

2) Daiyu's R doesn't give Twilight Embrace more damage, rather, your opponent simply loses vitality equal to however much you burned them for. I know the difference is small, but it's just something to keep in mind.

3) The main problem I have with pack Daiyu is that her R is cool, but hard to use. The amount of RFG, IIRC, is literally limited to only Daiyu, and her support isn't even that heavy in it. When it comes to stuff like Forbidden Lore and Twilight Witch, the only way their Es can be used is if the opponent blocks, and in case of Lore, if they block with a non-attack (or is it foundation?). Deadly Rings, IMO, is just a bad card. 2 damage with symbols that aren't too reknown for pumps isn't good, and its speed doesn't help.

4) Cards like Covenant Elder and Intolerant of Failure are extremely balanced, but they managed to come into a game overriden by Chester's and Cessation. I know this has little to do with Daiyu, but it just sucks that her awesome support is so held back by unbalanced cards.

5) Bitter Rivals is simply too prevalent, meaning, more often than not, your Twilight will be discarded before its combo, as is the problem with any other Combo attack. What's more, Red Lotus is also in just about every deck, and it LOLZ at the Combo E that you worked so hard for, one of the many reasons I'd want to see both cards changed.

Still, after I return from my job interview I'm gonna continue my research and see what I can come up with. Dual-symbol is looking pretty smexy, but I might go with pure Chaos.

i was running the one attack of hers as the low attack and i might go back to it.....its the one that makes it so your opponent cant cancel your enhances on your next attack which makes it untouched by red lotus and the like

Ancient Ensnaring Sleeve Technique? Hate to burst ya bubble, but all it does is prevent your opponent from playing enhances on their foundations during your next attack, not prevent them from canceling your enhances. Even then, it's a 3 difficulty low of 1 speed for 2 damage that has to deal damage? Yeah right.

Backing Zhao with your typical Chester's, Cessation, and possibly even Inhuman/Revenant's ought to be good enough, or at least, it's really all you can do. One way to help wade through your opponent's staging area is with either Shadow or Darkness Blade (which could be your low attack I might add).

yeah but checking two 8s in a row would be really really difficult not to mention it puts 1CC in a min 3 deck and i thought that the sleeve technique did something else thats my mistake maybe thats why i ended up taking it out in the first place

i was also thinking of adding in the inhumans as well just to see how it runs tri-symboled like that i dont know though ill take some playtesting