Judging by the vast number of pages/threads about Faclons there seem a lot of people thinking there is something not quite right with it.Rhetorics (of both sides) aside. It *is* a very solid pick if you want to win games.

Do not take my word for it. See what the very best X-Wing players picked as their list of choice.

Whether it is C3PO or the Phantom or it always has been there or whatnot: Falcons are tough as old leather boots.

I certainly hope there will be a way of dealing with Falcons (or the new Imperial turret ship) without having to resort to (almost) a single type of list (Swarm) ramming in the throat of the big turret ship as fast as you can before it is too late and it dominates the endgame.

Variety is te spice of life and gaming.

i do not like the number of Falcons in tournaments. Or Phantoms but to a lesser degree.

(far more fragile and thus prone to a single turn of bad luck or movement mistake)

Or *any* other ship.

Ideally I'd see a wide number of different builds each capable of doing well provided they are flown well.

For now the game is not ideal. Still a heck of a lot of fun though and it sure beats most out there.

Clearly its the fact that you cant lose either way....

Do you like X-Wing, Gadge? Here's a tip - there's two possible options, but you're only allowed to give me one of them.

Roll nothing but evades and you've spent points on C3PO and gained absolutely nothing from it, either. Get attacked from range 3 (or range one, for that matter) and you're not going to have things you're own way either. Get flanked by someone with the Outmaneuver card (ooh look, an upgrade card that counters an upgrade! What a novel idea!) and you're not going to see any benefit at all.

You're essentially paying a 3 point insurance premium which doesn't always pay out. So I ask again - what is "beardy" about doing what the card instructs you to do?

Of course i like X wing, dont be a facetious fool.

Could you phrase your question in a way in which it is possible for me to work out which two options you are offering me?

At the moment correct me if i'm wrong but with a one evade ship... if i say 'zero' evades and roll one i get 'one evade'

if i say 'zero' and get one i get 'one evade' and if i say 'one' and get one get one evade etc.

It may as well say 'have a free evade token' as, i could have read it wrong here, no matter what you chose on a falcon it gets one evade at least.

Thats correct yeah?

So i think its a bit of a cheesy/beardy card where essentially it pretends to offer a 'chance' but that chance is actually a certainty.

When the same topic comes up time and time again it suggests that at least some people percieve a problem.

No-one complains about TIE fighters, no-one complains about B-wings, no-one complains about Firesprays or Shuttles. They're all great ships, but they can be dealt with by a competant player.

Even the Phantom, depspite the vast volumes of nerd-rage that echoed around the internet for so many pain-filled weeks, is starting to become an accepted part of the scenery.

But the YT debate keeps cropping up, the Fat Han builds keep dominating big tournaments, and the same group of non-powergamers who don't even play with it keep turning up to defend it.

I don't even think the Falcon needs a fix, as I actually think the main cause of this is C3PO rather than the Falcon - but it amounts to the same thing.

Okay first it was just a bunch of powergamer that want to maintain Statu-Quo who defended the Falcon, now you are dismissing the opinion of others because they are not power-gamers that play with it.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but when I said that I almost never played with it, it meant:

A-That I still play with it sometimes (the clue here was the word 'Almost') and

B-That I can still play against it. And quite frankly, the whining around here comes from people that play against it, not with it.

So I think that should give at least some value to my opinion as I'm a non-powergamer that more often than not play against it with ships that just happens that their worst enemy is turrets. But feel free to ignore it.

.....

Falcon hate is the flavor of the month when we're slow on news or get a new release.

Back in june-july, it was the Phantom. Lot of threads saying the ship is broken, that it invalidates so many builds that it is not fun anymore, you need a turret to counter it or you're doom.

Then it was the Defender. Man this ship sucks, it's bad, it's overprice, you're stupid if you love it or you're only playing against noob.

Then the Advanced again, we were getting close to Gencon and everybody expected the fix to be anounced. So everybody shared how they would fix it, the ship is bad, it's bad, it's bad... even Vader sucks!

Now, a lot of tournament have passed and it,s the Falcon. The Falcon is OP, he's too easy to fly, I can't have fun going against it, please think of the children.

All that with some Rebel Aces B-Wing (Keyan and crew slot) being too good, Tie Swarm being cheap and some That Faction is OP, I can't win with this faction.

So, it keeps crawling back because people need something to discuss and there will always be some new players that get to face those ship for the first time and enter the OP bandwagon. There is always that some threads discussion bring different point of view, which bring some members the desire to express their opinion in a different thread about the same subject, which bring other opinion, etc, etc, etc.... Just wait and see when wave 5 will hit, it will be Lando and the Outrider turn, then wave 6 and probably a ship in there will get the attention and so on...

I agree, its just becoming tiresome with several threads of whining about the same thing. Usually by the same people.

Just play the game and have fun, if you find something overpowered or broken ask your friends not to field it.

If you dont have any friends and have to play strangers then you've got bigger problems that an "overpowered' list build....

It may as well say 'have a free evade token'

That would give you the token and your agility dice, and would be equally viable on any Rebel crew slot ship.

C-3PO essentially allows you to take a free 5/8s of an Evade action on a 1 dice ship.

Plus it gives you the option to gamble and go double or nothing.

So, it keeps crawling back because people need something to discuss and there will always be some new players that get to face those ship for the first time and enter the OP bandwagon. There is always that some threads discussion bring different point of view, which bring some members the desire to express their opinion in a different thread about the same subject, which bring other opinion, etc, etc, etc.... Just wait and see when wave 5 will hit, it will be Lando and the Outrider turn, then wave 6 and probably a ship in there will get the attention and so on...

Problem is, people come to these forums, believe the OP bandwagon and it has repercussions on the actual game. Essentially...

If you call something OP on the forums you are going to make it ever so slightly more popular.

So correct me here, where am i going wrong.

What 'guess' can i make on the falcon that doesnt give me an evade.

i thought....

guess no evades + roll none =get one

guess one evade + roll none = get one

Guess no evades + roll one = get one

guess one evae + roll one = get one

Am i missing something , i've only played 3p0 once

As i said i thought you had to guess a positive *ammount* of evades (and clearly i misread it) which meant it was either 2 evades or none and not much chance of rolling that evade... that personally seemed fairer

So correct me here, where am i going wrong.

What 'guess' can i make on the falcon that doesnt give me an evade.

i thought....

guess no evades + roll none =get one

guess one evade + roll none = get one

Guess no evades + roll one = get one

guess one evae + roll one = get one

Am i missing something , i've only played 3p0 once

As i said i thought you had to guess a positive *ammount* of evades (and clearly i misread it) which meant it was either 2 evades or none and not much chance of rolling that evade... that personally seemed fairer

If you guess one and roll none, you have none.

If you guess one and roll one, you have two.

What 'guess' can i make on the falcon that doesnt give me an evade.

Guess 1 evade + roll none = get none.

Ok well that seems a bit better. Its a card i never use tbh so i've read the wording on it perhaps twice.

Mostly i field small ships, i think i've played my falcon about three times in total.

Much less of a 'beardy' option if there is a possibility of failure, i was under the mistaken impression that it pretty much worked whatever you guessed.

clearly i should have read that better

I was under the mistaken impression that it pretty much worked whatever you guessed.

That is the issue, 3-CPO is really an insurance card, like Gunner is. I'd guess most people will guess 0 evades when they use it. That way no matter what they roll, they get 1.

But then you've spent 3 points on a card that didn't really have any impact on that turn at least.

You get +1 evade added if you guess right. If you guess you'll roll 0 evades, you'll get +1 evade if you roll 0 evades.

Guessing 0 means one guaranteed evade.

So correct me here, where am i going wrong.

What 'guess' can i make on the falcon that doesnt give me an evade.

i thought....

guess no evades + roll none =get one

guess one evade + roll none = get one

Guess no evades + roll one = get one

guess one evae + roll one = get one

Am i missing something , i've only played 3p0 once

As i said i thought you had to guess a positive *ammount* of evades (and clearly i misread it) which meant it was either 2 evades or none and not much chance of rolling that evade... that personally seemed fairer

guess no evades + roll none =get one - correct

guess one evade + roll none = get one - wrong, you get none

Guess no evades + roll one = get one - correct, but you would have had this evade with or without C3PO

guess one evae + roll one = get one - wrong, you get two

This is why it helps if you understand the mechanics of something before you try to criticise it....

Oh you are so pompous at times Mr Gecko, did you know that?

I made a mistake in reading something and admitted it. have the grace to accept that.

I was under the mistaken impression that it pretty much worked whatever you guessed.

That is the issue, 3-CPO is really an insurance card, like Gunner is. I'd guess most people will guess 0 evades when they use it. That way no matter what they roll, they get 1.

But then you've spent 3 points on a card that didn't really have any impact on that turn at least.

And that's pretty much it. It's a card that eliminate the randomness of one roll (made with one die) per turn and suddenly people find it overpowered. If they are that worried by one result, I wonder what they think when their opponent roll hot in a game.

I'd like to point out AGAIN, I never said Fat Han was OP.

I said he was an absurd, lazy, way to play.

What irks me so much about Fat Han is it encourages bad play. It works well with minimal effort. A TIE swarm player will tell you he's worked up a sweat by the end of the game. Fat Han just gets the meat sweats.

Lastly his proliferation has erased a number of interesting squad builds from tournament contention. I almost never see squints anymore. Unless a hawk is riding shotgun next to fat Han you don't see them in competitive play.

i can see how this would annoy you but again... just ask people not to play that build.

you're not playing *exclusively* against strangers are you?

Sure you've got to deal with it temporarily in organised play but surely that is not the be all and end all of xwing.

I'm positive that when a few more ships and options come out someone will find the new 'terribly broken thing' and all this will just be a distant memory.

I mean i dont consider *anything* in a game broken after you've faced a 4th edition warhammer 4th level dark elf sorcerer with 'cloak of mist and shadows', 'amber amulet' and 'forbidden rod'.

For those that dont know that combo... that let your wizard be etherial and immune to normal weapons, gave him (i think) a 48" move that ignored scenery, it also let him cast spells with total power (coudlnt be dispelled) each turn but he took a wound if he did this.. that was ok though cos the amber amulet gave it him back at the start of the next turn.

When you consider epically bad design and playtesting let that occur.... i'm tempted to be lenient on FFG!

Oh you are so pompous at time Mr Gecko, did you know that?

It's possible he saw your post and responded without reading further down the thread and saw where you realized your mistake.

I don't think he was trying to be pompous... But I could of course be wrong.

that was ok though cos the amber amulet gave it him back at the start of the next turn.

Wow that is broken...

FTS Gecko, you need to take a time out from this, your arguments have since stopped making any sense

Yep, it was a one man army the 'cloak, rod and amulet' sorceror.

Imagine casting the hardest level 4 spells automatially with no chance of it being dispelled *every* turn from a guy who was invulnerble and could run out of range whenever he felt like it.

I get chills just rememebering it

Yep, it was a one man army the 'cloak, rod and amulet' sorceror.

Imagine casting the hardest level 4 spells automatially with no chance of it being dispelled *every* turn from a guy who was invulnerble and could run out of range whenever he felt like it.

I get chills just rememebering it

Which is why I stayed away from wfb, then they came out with unbound and I gave up totally on GW.

yeah this was the 'red period' of the 90s when it was 'herohammer', it got a lot better at one point around 2000 but i just dont play GW stuff anymore as its getting back like it was in the 90s

I guess it comes down to this, Seanamal. What specifically does the inclusion of Threepio do that causes this issue, that has not been caused by the mere introduction of the Falcon itself?

I guess people just need to learn and accept that Turrets are a part of this game. Hell, in essence, we've had it since Wave 1 with the Y-wing. But, we have 2 more ships coming out with turret primaries. We are also going to be getting a third turret upgrade with Most Wanted. At what point do people accept that turrets will be a part of this game, that it will be a part of the dog fighting experience?

The "it destroys the theme of the game" arguments are really getting old. Interceptors were doing very well before the Phantom hotness. Hell, there is evidence that Interceptors still do well, even if they don't get to be arc dodgers. And considering even the most maneuverable ships will get shot at during some point of the game, you need to have a plan for when it happens. It's just with turrets, you need to plan on it all the time. It has been a year and half since the Falcon released. It's a part of the game. Accept the "laziness" of play as part of the game, as it is not going anywhere.

And I really, really doubt Autothrusters will be this savior for the Interceptors that everyone seems to be expecting.

It's an upgrade enabling interceptors to go up against turrets. I'm guessing it's an agility buff against out of arc attacks. Sit back at Range 3 from that Falcon and pummel it with 3 dice attacks against its small agility while hiding behind five evades of your own.