If you mean the actionless Falcon fortress, it really isn't any good.

I agree. Played against one in a regional tournament. Lando and Chewie, literally donuting around the middle board as sub-range one from each other. Lando passing actions, Chewie with DtF I believe?

It really didn't do that well.

If there's one thing about the Falcon I'd change, it's the title. The stock YT-1300 (Outer Rim Smuggler) has 2 attack, 1 defence, 6 hull and 4 shields. The named pilots (Chewie, Lando, Han) fly versions with 3 attack, 1 defence, 8 hull and 5 shields - clearly intended to represent the heavily (and illegally) modified Millennium Falcon.

So - put those stat upgrades on the Millennium Falcon title card:

Millennium Falcon - Title - Unique: This ship has the evade action, +1 attack, +2 hull and +1 shield.

While I'm happy enough to play against anyone and anything they want to field, thematically seeing 2 YT-1300 lists together bugs me. There's only one Falcon.

fat Falcon cost about the same as: 2 firesprays, 3 lambdas, 5 TIE-f, 3 X-Wings...

but if You don't bring enough firepower and hulls - He will crush You

Can we PLEASE stop making threads about osikla idea that Fat Han is OP'ed or unbeatable or whatever? He's not and that's it.

Nowadays, you really aren't going to beat a Phantom and Fat Han list with a bunch of bombers. Just give it a try. Go.

If it really works, I want to know immediately, so I can have fun playing it too.

Um, okay. Han goes down to concentrated ordnance fire like a paper target at a shooting range. Phantoms are tougher, mostly because they move after you and can get out of your arc.

But you can also adapt your deployment, since you won't face Han and a Phantom in the same list. (Decimator/Phantom lists will be scarier, but we don't have those to deal with quite yet.) And particularly at Range 3, multiple arcs that only overlap slightly can make it hard for a Phantom to escape completely. Then you're hoping for a decent dice result, particularly against Buzzsaw Echo who will be defending with 4 dice + focus + evade, but with Jonus' support you have acceptable odds of ending the encounter with any given piece of ordnance.

I'm undefeated with Bombers against Falcon builds, and about 2-3 against Phantoms--which aren't great odds in the abstract, but if you consider the relative frequencies of each list in the metagame right now, it starts to look like a pretty decent all-around list.

That's great and all, but you should really try playing X-wing some time, since you obviously never do. /sarcasm

Amusingly, everyone playing a bad ship will make a bad ship win games, though. If everyone played nothing but TIE Advanced builds then the TIE Advanced would be winning Worlds.

Unless you literally mean EVERYONE playing Tie Advanced I see no way it will ever win the Worlds.

Not if there is even a single player with a good grasp of the game and a solid list.

Which could be anything really. Fat Han, XXBB, Tie Swarm. Phantom + (mini) swarm, Soontirs Shuttle Show. Anything.

If those we widely consider the "best players in the world" are on board with a ship, taking it to the top of tournaments, and doing so at high volume it's a good ship and combo. THE best as far as those players are concerned because they chose to take it and won with it. GEN CON was a multi-day grind of epic proportions, FALCONS rose to the top even if they didn't take the top spot. Pretty solid evidence that it IS the most powerful thing in the meta and it's warping it in ways that are disturbing to many of us.

If the list hasn't won a worlds with it, then it isn't good.

I've been pondering Vorpal's points from a few (lot?) pages back that the meta has changed around Falcons, but the Falcons themselves haven't changed. But something obviously did, because we've gone from HSF to Fat Han. And I think maybe there is a big change, but it's easy to miss because it's not the Falcon themselves. What's changed is the Z-95.

1st Generation Han Shoots First lists ran a pair of Rookies. That left 12 points of upgrades for Han, and not much room to do anything else. You didn't want to go below that, because you gave up a lot for the 3-4 points you'd save by dropping to an A-wing or a Y-wing, and you couldn't go much above that because jumping to something like Biggs left you with only 8 points to upgrade Han.

But now along comes the Z-95, and you get +9 points to play with. It handles like an X-wing, and while it doesn't turn out as much firepower the boost you can give Han or the rest of your list is well worth it. Those +9 points are defensive improvements for Han (C-3PO), offensive improvements (Luke), and survivability improvements (Biggs).

IMHO, those extra points have created a critical mass for the Falcon that didn't exist before. Beatable or not, it's become a truly obnoxious ship to face.

I've been pondering Vorpal's points from a few (lot?) pages back that the meta has changed around Falcons, but the Falcons themselves haven't changed. But something obviously did, because we've gone from HSF to Fat Han. And I think maybe there is a big change, but it's easy to miss because it's not the Falcon themselves. What's changed is the Z-95.

1st Generation Han Shoots First lists ran a pair of Rookies. That left 12 points of upgrades for Han, and not much room to do anything else. You didn't want to go below that, because you gave up a lot for the 3-4 points you'd save by dropping to an A-wing or a Y-wing, and you couldn't go much above that because jumping to something like Biggs left you with only 8 points to upgrade Han.

But now along comes the Z-95, and you get +9 points to play with. It handles like an X-wing, and while it doesn't turn out as much firepower the boost you can give Han or the rest of your list is well worth it. Those +9 points are defensive improvements for Han (C-3PO), offensive improvements (Luke), and survivability improvements (Biggs).

IMHO, those extra points have created a critical mass for the Falcon that didn't exist before. Beatable or not, it's become a truly obnoxious ship to face.

While I agree that the Z-95 has changed HSF/Fat Han somewhat, it's more C-3PO coming out that has changed it.

I've been pondering Vorpal's points from a few (lot?) pages back that the meta has changed around Falcons, but the Falcons themselves haven't changed. But something obviously did, because we've gone from HSF to Fat Han. And I think maybe there is a big change, but it's easy to miss because it's not the Falcon themselves. What's changed is the Z-95.

1st Generation Han Shoots First lists ran a pair of Rookies. That left 12 points of upgrades for Han, and not much room to do anything else. You didn't want to go below that, because you gave up a lot for the 3-4 points you'd save by dropping to an A-wing or a Y-wing, and you couldn't go much above that because jumping to something like Biggs left you with only 8 points to upgrade Han.

But now along comes the Z-95, and you get +9 points to play with. It handles like an X-wing, and while it doesn't turn out as much firepower the boost you can give Han or the rest of your list is well worth it. Those +9 points are defensive improvements for Han (C-3PO), offensive improvements (Luke), and survivability improvements (Biggs).

IMHO, those extra points have created a critical mass for the Falcon that didn't exist before. Beatable or not, it's become a truly obnoxious ship to face.

While I agree that the Z-95 has changed HSF/Fat Han somewhat, it's more C-3PO coming out that has changed it.

Can't agree with that, I do believe it is the possibilty to take 3 or even 4 ships with the Falcon that is currently shaking things up. Now, not only do you have to take care of the Falcon, but you might also be facing a mini-swarm that is surprisingly resilient.

Let's be honest here, 3PO is nice since he ensure an evade result per turn, but it's not like the result could not have happen anyway, and it is still just one evade. If you are screwed because once per round, the ship has an automatic success with one dice, you might be doing something wrong. I think 3PO has more a psychological impact on the opponent than a real impact on the game. he's a good upgrade for sure, but if you concentrate fire he won't have a big impact.

If I remember correctly, before wave 4, not a lot of people took the Falcon because it was too easy to destroy and the rest of the team could not do the job. Now, the Falcon is slightly more survivable and can bring a decent escort. No wonder it is doing good, they addressed both complaint that made it unviable before.

I've been pondering Vorpal's points from a few (lot?) pages back that the meta has changed around Falcons, but the Falcons themselves haven't changed. But something obviously did, because we've gone from HSF to Fat Han. And I think maybe there is a big change, but it's easy to miss because it's not the Falcon themselves. What's changed is the Z-95.

1st Generation Han Shoots First lists ran a pair of Rookies. That left 12 points of upgrades for Han, and not much room to do anything else. You didn't want to go below that, because you gave up a lot for the 3-4 points you'd save by dropping to an A-wing or a Y-wing, and you couldn't go much above that because jumping to something like Biggs left you with only 8 points to upgrade Han.

But now along comes the Z-95, and you get +9 points to play with. It handles like an X-wing, and while it doesn't turn out as much firepower the boost you can give Han or the rest of your list is well worth it. Those +9 points are defensive improvements for Han (C-3PO), offensive improvements (Luke), and survivability improvements (Biggs).

IMHO, those extra points have created a critical mass for the Falcon that didn't exist before. Beatable or not, it's become a truly obnoxious ship to face.

While I agree that the Z-95 has changed HSF/Fat Han somewhat, it's more C-3PO coming out that has changed it.

Can't agree with that, I do believe it is the possibilty to take 3 or even 4 ships with the Falcon that is currently shaking things up. Now, not only do you have to take care of the Falcon, but you might also be facing a mini-swarm that is surprisingly resilient.

Let's be honest here, 3PO is nice since he ensure an evade result per turn, but it's not like the result could not have happen anyway, and it is still just one evade. If you are screwed because once per round, the ship has an automatic success with one dice, you might be doing something wrong. I think 3PO has more a psychological impact on the opponent than a real impact on the game. he's a good upgrade for sure, but if you concentrate fire he won't have a big impact.

If I remember correctly, before wave 4, not a lot of people took the Falcon because it was too easy to destroy and the rest of the team could not do the job. Now, the Falcon is slightly more survivable and can bring a decent escort. No wonder it is doing good, they addressed both complaint that made it unviable before.

Like I said, the Z has changed it but not as much as 3PO. The ability to guarantee two evades per turn is the reason it's so big right now. Also because it's so good against Phantoms.

Both have had positive influence on falcon usage. Both force Focusing on the Falcon as the only viable tactic because if the Faclon gets to end game, you lose.

Not only is it a strong list, but it determines your opponents tactics. Kill the Falcon before it kills more of your list than C3Po can handle.

While I agree that the Z-95 has changed HSF/Fat Han somewhat, it's more C-3PO coming out that has changed it.

Like I said, the Z has changed it but not as much as 3PO. The ability to guarantee two evades per turn is the reason it's so big right now. Also because it's so good against Phantoms.

I take it that you would prefer facing a Falcon without 3PO escorted by 4 Z or 2 Z and a B than a Falcon with 3PO and 2 X.

3PO is nice, but he only bring reliability to the first roll. He could still have dodged it without him. Were you really screwed before if the Falcon always succeeded his first roll? What will you do when Lando get out and roll 2 evade?

Falcons will be able to rack up 3-4 evades a turn pretty soon and that really worries me. Throw it on chewie and we're looking at 22hp falcons (assuming it lasts 3 combat rounds). That's crazy. There will be lists that can't even scratch it.

Now that load out certainly will lack the offensive punch of other builds but if you can kill it you can't score those points. Ultimate denial and further forcing the hand of the opposition in tactics. Thankfully I don't think it will pan out as more competitive (let's see those new hwk upgrades) but it will be more annoying.

Which is frustrating when you show to the store with a group of Tie Ints with PTL or any other build that requires actual skill when moving your ships across the board. Turrets make arc dodging an impossibility. Arc dodging is one of the few aspects of the game that actually require tactics and skill.

Why are so many players convinced that arc-dodging is the epitome of skill in X-wing? If you move late in the round, and you have PTL and access to boost and barrel roll, an eight-year-old who's new to the game can figure out how to reliably dodge firing arcs. (Not hyperbole: I've taught two kids how to do it.)

First off the fact that you are putting words in my mouth pretty much invalidates your point. Did I say epitome of skill? I said the arc dodging requires skill. big difference. That said the fact that you claim to have taught two kids to master arc dodging means very little even if i were predisposed to believe you which i am not. What part of this game requires more skill than arc dodging? If dodging arcs is so easy how does anyone ever lose?

Edit: thought better.

I like how some of the arguments are like asian parents

If the list hasn't won a worlds with it, then it isn't good.

"A-Wing? Why not A+Wing?"

Which is frustrating when you show to the store with a group of Tie Ints with PTL or any other build that requires actual skill when moving your ships across the board. Turrets make arc dodging an impossibility. Arc dodging is one of the few aspects of the game that actually require tactics and skill.

Why are so many players convinced that arc-dodging is the epitome of skill in X-wing? If you move late in the round, and you have PTL and access to boost and barrel roll, an eight-year-old who's new to the game can figure out how to reliably dodge firing arcs. (Not hyperbole: I've taught two kids how to do it.)

First off the fact that you are putting words in my mouth pretty much invalidates your point. Did I say epitome of skill? I said the arc dodging requires skill. big difference. That said the fact that you claim to have taught two kids to master arc dodging means very little even if i were predisposed to believe you which i am not. What part of this game requires more skill than arc dodging? If dodging arcs is so easy how does anyone ever lose?

Are you unclear on what epitome means? You describe arc dodging as one of the few things in the game that require tactics and skill. So if that is your view then how could it not qualify as a "person or thing that is typical of or possesses to a high degree the features of a whole class"? So what you didn't say the word epitome, what you did say just so happens to mean just that.

And since you are so concerned about having words put in your mouth you should note that Vorpal didn't descibed arc dodging as a whole, just arc dodging with a specefic criteria of high pilot skill and access to boost and barrel roll.

Can we PLEASE stop making threads about osikla idea that Fat Han is OP'ed or unbeatable or whatever? He's not and that's it.

Actually I never said he was OP.

Stupid probability manipulation, absurdly forgiving, and ruining the game by screwing the meta. But I wouldn't say OP. He can be killed. It just takes specialized builds. I just loathe the fact that he basicly tosses out the part of the game that involves something the player can effect, namely maneuvering.

Fat Han doesn't take out maneuvering. Precisely because it costs so much and has only 1 attack, you need to dodge arcs.

Fat Han doesn't take out maneuvering. Precisely because it costs so much and has only 1 attack, you need to dodge arcs.

Eh. I am fairly sure he meant Fat Han takes out maneuvering *of the enemy ships*.

Fat Han doesn't take out maneuvering. Precisely because it costs so much and has only 1 attack, you need to dodge arcs.

Eh. I am fairly sure he meant Fat Han takes out maneuvering *of the enemy ships*.

Fat Han doesn't take out maneuvering. Precisely because it costs so much and has only 1 attack, you need to dodge arcs.

Eh. I am fairly sure he meant Fat Han takes out maneuvering *of the enemy ships*.

Now you've lost me.

X-wing Minatures is not Chess.

It has dice in it.

As for Super Falcons it is sort of mid meta just like how the hunter class is for Hearthstone. A bunch of new pieces are added to the game making everyone re-figure out the meta game. So everyone falls back to a strong easy to play but powerful builds such as Hunter class or in the case of X-wing the Super Falcon.

However when you reach the top tier you don't find the Falcon or the Hunter anywhere as those people already figured out how to beat it and are now working against higher tier metas such as Buzzsaw shuttle or Tie Swarm.

So Falcon is more of a FOO strategy. To learn more about FOO watch this.

I've actually seen this before. Unfortunately, Fat Han is just a FOO strategy. Don't believe me? Check top 8 at GenCon. Many of the indisputable best players were using it (Paul Heaver had a Fan Han). In fact, the second place player had 2 falcons!

You actually just made the point that Falcons, especially Fat Falcons, are FOO strategies and other builds do not over enough power to skill ratio to convince people to try an alternative strategy (read: build).

So are we in agreement that unique YT-1300 are The noob tube of Star Wars and leave it at that. The Super Falcon did not win Gen Con after all.

Can we PLEASE stop making threads about osikla idea that Fat Han is OP'ed or unbeatable or whatever? He's not and that's it.