iPeregrine, the biggest advantadge you have against a phantom, is that the phantom is the one on a clock and is moving last, any turn you can arc dodge him, is bad news for him, and it actually happens, even then, the phantom is likely to take damage, and in return, the falcon would take 1-2 damage tops from the phantom ( the turns you can't arc dodge, you evade + C3PO, as a tip, look phantom's back from a straight line, it will force it to bad movements since if he doesn't have intelligence officer, he can't know to which side he should do the hard turn). But, i said it is overrated because i don't find it entirely needed and you are gimping yourself on other match ups for it.

Kind of like those builds withouth gunner, that are better against other falcons, but are actually quite bad against phantoms or any high agility list.

It's a boring and obnoxious build which is un-fun to play against and has killed innovation in my area. But you already know that.

I'm more interested in finding out why OP thinks that IG-88 is going to be the cure?

That's true, but incomplete because it seems to assume a cost equivalency between Han and the Interceptor. How many Interceptors can you buy for 55-60 points? How much trouble are you in for making a mistake when you average that cost across all 55-60 points of Interceptors, in comparison to how much trouble Fat Han is in for making a similar mistake?

This is true and acknowledged. But the comparison for how much trouble you're in depends entirely on the scale of the mistake, and it needs to be a much bigger mistake for Han. An Interceptor that drops itself into a bad move or runs into a well-placed blocker is probably dead; Han is not. How those things compare depends entirely on the specific situation, and can't necessarily be compared.

I'm mainly just objecting to the terminology. I think most of us view arc-dodging ships as high-risk/high-reward. But there's really nothing high-risk about the Falcon. Maybe the points cost is enough to buy that risk change, but there's certainly nothing in the same vein.

I wasn't saying "L2Fly Noob!" at all, although I suppose I can see how it might have come across that way. I really do understand how frustrating it can be to fly against something that you can't seem to damage meaningfully, while it thrashes you with impunity.

I know this doesn't come up much, but I have to ask.. Has no one thought that a counter to this build could be homing missiles? An alpha strike using 4 attack dice homing missiles would ruin Fat Han's day, as you would be unable to spend your evade tokens.

Yes, using 3po would grant you an extra evade, but you couldn't use an evade from the evade action on the MF title, SO, you MIGHT be lucky to get 2 evades (1 roll, and one from 3po), but the likelihood is you'll only be getting one. And against 4 dice, chance are pretty good some damage is coming your way. Homing missiles at least help to mitigate the evade action granting a free evade.

I see no reason why this couldn't ruin Han's day..

Airen Cracken, Veteran Instincts, Cluster Missiles

Lt. Blount, Assault Missile

Bandit, Homing missile, Munition failsafe x3..

Can Han be beat? Of coarse. If I played the same people over and over and all they played was Han I would be pissed. Mixing things up is the fun of this game. If you don't like A list cause it beats your B list then you need to change. If your fellow players always play the same list and don't change then you need to find new opponents.

I think the poster just got owned and is upset and now thinks that it is over powered

Han imo lacks fire power and that takes up over half your squad points.

Not overly hard to beat, but also not easy

Not this again!

Anyways, with this list maneuverability doesn't matter AS MUCH but still matters. If you pay attention to maneuvering and fly han like an interceptor, you can make it into tournaments. Engine upgrade is worth WAY more than C-3PO.

Anyways, you should be worried more about phat dash than phat han whenever the boat gets here.

Plus Outmaneuver eliminates a lot of his tankiness by nullifying 3P0.

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

I am going to play what I want to play... toot toot toot!

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

Its... its like they play tested it. Coooool.

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

my biggest hate about the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy doesn't have a 5 straight

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

my biggest hate about the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy doesn't have a 5 straight

Give it the boost! For free as part of the title card.

I mean the new kids on the block , that is the currant desingers even said that the old models have a few things that are not in step. We know all about TIE Ad and Y-Wings but like you I agree that the... hold on... THE FALCON... there we go... well, she is not as powerful as she should be.

TRUE...true, true, true.

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

my biggest hate about the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy doesn't have a 5 straight

Give it the boost! For free as part of the title card.

I mean the new kids on the block , that is the currant desingers even said that the old models have a few things that are not in step. We know all about TIE Ad and Y-Wings but like you I agree that the... hold on... THE FALCON... there we go... well, she is not as powerful as she should be.

TRUE...true, true, true.

PLEASE. That effing radar dish MOVES. OP as SFGDHjvgkbfdulfrfocdpnf.

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

my biggest hate about the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy doesn't have a 5 straight

Give it the boost! For free as part of the title card.

I mean the new kids on the block , that is the currant desingers even said that the old models have a few things that are not in step. We know all about TIE Ad and Y-Wings but like you I agree that the... hold on... THE FALCON... there we go... well, she is not as powerful as she should be.

TRUE...true, true, true.

PLEASE. That effing radar dish MOVES. OP as SFGDHjvgkbfdulfrfocdpnf.

Yeah but it don't give Han a plus one red di...

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

my biggest hate about the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy doesn't have a 5 straight

Give it the boost! For free as part of the title card.

I mean the new kids on the block , that is the currant desingers even said that the old models have a few things that are not in step. We know all about TIE Ad and Y-Wings but like you I agree that the... hold on... THE FALCON... there we go... well, she is not as powerful as she should be.

TRUE...true, true, true.

PLEASE. That effing radar dish MOVES. OP as SFGDHjvgkbfdulfrfocdpnf.

Yeah but it don't give Han a plus one red di...

Seriously, both turret ships just make me want to smash the teeth out of someone.

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Yeah. I don't think it was good wave 2 wave 3, and I don't think its a good experience now. As we've also noticed on this board... Beginners who don't know how to fly find the Falcon incredibly hard to compete with.

my biggest hate about the Falcon is the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy doesn't have a 5 straight

Give it the boost! For free as part of the title card.

I mean the new kids on the block , that is the currant desingers even said that the old models have a few things that are not in step. We know all about TIE Ad and Y-Wings but like you I agree that the... hold on... THE FALCON... there we go... well, she is not as powerful as she should be.

TRUE...true, true, true.

PLEASE. That effing radar dish MOVES. OP as SFGDHjvgkbfdulfrfocdpnf.

Yeah but it don't give Han a plus one red di...

I thought it did when your in its arc

IT SEES YOU. ALL THE TIME. EVEN WHEN YOU'RE SECRETLY COMFORTING YOUR TIE ADVANCED. THERES NO ESCAPE. something something about covering half the board with its firing space, something something.

@Scatha - I realize that this isn't necessarily the best strategy for dealing with Han, but it is a potential that helps mitigate some of the tankiness. I might just try it out to see how it fares. I do like your idea with the Proto A's as well, but that's some pretty low PS to deal with. 5 A's vs 5 Z's? I'll take the Z's.

I don´t mean 5 Proto A´s with Rockets. The point isn´t to Alpha strike, but to win the race. 1-2 rockets in a list that shoots after the main gunnery to pick off the Evade tokens is enough.

I've beaten Fat Han and I've lost to Fat Han. What I don't like is that it's a very competitive build that involves 0 skill to play. It's entirely probability manipulation. Hence the title of the thread. It basically tosses out the entire part of the game that involves critical thinking. That's what I don't like. I spend 10 minutes planning and orchestrating a delicate ballet of ships. Fat Han spins the dial to anything that isn't red and is done. That's what I find annoying. It's so lazy it makes me question why someone is even playing the game.

Please edit the first post to include the build/builds of Fat Han.

And if not, could someone please post it.

Why do I see that most of the people who complain about Fat Han have TIE Interceptor avatars?

I sure don't remmeber there being a 360 turret on the Falcon. Its like a forward turret!!! What the heck. And whats with that dial?? And the total disregard for need of actions? Augh.

Just in case this wasn't sarcasm...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVLLbqSuiAg

2:35 onwards. Yea, that's right, not one, but two 360 turrets on the Falcon. One on top, one underneath. You're welcome.

I've beaten Fat Han and I've lost to Fat Han. What I don't like is that it's a very competitive build that involves 0 skill to play. It's entirely probability manipulation. Hence the title of the thread. It basically tosses out the entire part of the game that involves critical thinking. That's what I don't like. I spend 10 minutes planning and orchestrating a delicate ballet of ships. Fat Han spins the dial to anything that isn't red and is done. That's what I find annoying. It's so lazy it makes me question why someone is even playing the game.

So did you fail to read either of my responses--as well as the other posts, including KineticOperator's, that explained what's wrong with this--or are you just ignoring them?

Corrently the only ways for the Empire to hunt down Falcon are:

- 7-8x TIE/f swarm

- 4x sigma phantom

- mass bomber swarm

(especialy with cluster missiles and Jonus)

- 1x firespray + 3x lambda

- 3x firespray

THE PROBLEM - there are not cheap builds, requries to buy many ships

2:35 onwards. Yea, that's right, not one, but two 360 turrets on the Falcon. One on top, one underneath. You're welcome.

It would probably help if you post the real movie, not a clumsy fan edit with their own badly-done CGI added. In the actual movie it's not really clear that the turrets have such a massive arc, all of the shooting is in a fairly narrow cone directly up or down.

I'm gonna not read pages 2 and 3. Yes, Fat Han (and chewie) are good versions of the YT 1300. But to say they don't require skill is incorrect. YT's still have a poor jousting value (look up major juggler's lanchester law post). This means that in a straight fight they will lose often to better ships. They need to utilize their 360 firing arc in a way that minimizes the shots coming their way.

This is done with good maneuvering.

That is all.