My friend wants his PC to have an heirloom laspistol of Best quality, which I agree with. However when we looked up what "Best" means, we were shocked to see that the x10 cost modifier isn't worth it. Why don't ranged weapons get a bonus to use? I can see ALL Good weapons getting a +5 and Best getting a +10. For ranged weapons that would factor in balancing, baffling, etc. whereas melee weapons would be balanced, lighter, etc. Never jamming isn't worth 450 thrones! By all means keep the reliability factor for ranged weapons and the +1 for melee (although I can see ranged weapons gaining a +1 to damage instead of the boosted reliability, which would be the player's choice to choose). Hell, the GM screen even has a generic listing for Poor, Good and Best with no differentiation between ranged and melee weapons.

To add, what's with the Good armor bonus that only applies to the first round of combat? That's freakin' silly! Does the Good armor suddenly lose consistency? Why not just have it be a permanent +1 and then the Best adds +2 or a +1 with weight reduction? Hell, why not allow it to add to certain Fellowship tests? That last may be a bit much to keep track of, but I stand by the Good armor bonus being rather dumb.

Yeah truthfully, a better qualilty gun should be more accurate. And its hard to justify buying good quality armor when for cheaper you can just get a normal quality better armor for cheaper.

We've talked it over and this is what we're in agreement with my idea that Good weapons, regardless of being ranged or melee, get a +5 to attack. The Good still get a Reliability bonus of one step. Yes, this isn't "in step" with melee weapons, but it makes sense. Best get a +10 bonus to attack and ranged get either a +1 to damage or they never jam or overheat, the player's choice (this works for those who want a super-reliable plasma rifle as well as not screwing those who want that bad-ass laspistol). Melee weapons get the +1 to damage, as before. As ranged weapons have to rely on ammo, I don't think the disparity of adding reliability is too much.

As far as armor is concerned, Good get a permanent +1 and Best gets a permanent +1 as well as weighing half as much. I was thinking of allowing the +2 in place of the weight reduction (player's choice), but as I still haven't actually played, I'm not sure how "powerful" that is.

To add, what's with the Good armor bonus that only applies to the first round of combat? That's freakin' silly! Does the Good armor suddenly lose consistency? Why not just have it be a permanent +1 and then the Best adds +2 or a +1 with weight reduction? Hell, why not allow it to add to certain Fellowship tests? That last may be a bit much to keep track of, but I stand by the Good armor bonus being rather dumb.

It doesn't apply to the first round of combat, but to the first hit in every round of combat. You can either see this as the average for a suit of armour that is slightly better than the standard, but not so much that it'd have a full plus point of AP or you can say that yes, it does lose consistency. For example, I could envision high tech armour that constantly tries to realign certain particles within it to best spread out the impact from a shot - which it can't quite manage when there are too many hits in too small an amount of time.

Okay,

If it would be a special item I would make the laspistol somewhat special.

Say add 1 to damage, give a +10% to social skills for some people who see the pistol or even give it the accurate trait

Cifer said:

Good point on the first hit in each round, but even then it doesn't make much sense to me. It's either stronger, or it isn't. I don't see it being too big of a deal to add a permanent +1. I also like the idea of a +5 and +10 to applicable social rolls for Good and Best, respectively. After all, if you're carrying and heirloom Weicher GX-27 "Hell Mouth" bolter, that should mean something to those in the know (Do you feel lucky? Well, do ya'...punk? ). Hell, I was going to allow all kinds of bonuses or penalties based on clothing and the like. You could also get really into it and allow for different traits to be added (both good and bad) to reflect truly customized weaponry. For example, adding "Accurate" to a bolter (it has gyrojet trackers) or "Balanced" to a great sword (gyroscopic levelers).

One thing I am keeping in mind is that custom items should be very rare. Not only are they expensive, but the know-how to make them is most certainly exclusive (especially a truly customized weapon). Even if you do have the thrones to burn, some tech-priest's not just going to sell away trade secrets to a fluffy, snot-nosed rich-boy who wants hive cred with his "Pocket Exterminatus" plasma gun.

Anything GW-derived is obsessed with lesser stuff being disposable and worthless ('meat shield', 'ablative' - which certainly spills over into their view of stuff/people in RL!), so I'd say the Good armour has ablative properties - too much damage from a similar aspect, too soon gets through, until you reposition yourself to account for that [in later rounds]. Or other possibilities your imagination can readily furnish you with. Since it gets mentioned in the core book as an attribute, of course better quality stuff should carry Fel modifiers (though could be penalties in some places and should be optional as you procure it - a Noble Cleric might think it worth having a Good revolver because its ornateness redounds to the Emperor's glory; an Assassin might pay extra to have the weapon look as ordinary as possible whilst having some other advantage).

As a lot of folk have said, this game is about heaping on the bonuses where possible and adding little bits here and there - imagination powered and little bits - to just about everything. Like the books are written as the baseline for the most stern, tyranical nobhead of a GM ever, or to rein in the archetypal munchkin; and all better humans should add a grade or two without shame, and as a matter of course.

Take the text as written and stretch a bit to give you some elbow room and fun, and you won't break the system....

It reminds me of the New World of Darkness Storyteller System, which I feel is pure brilliance (funny how White Wolf can make gold with the NWoD and crap with Exalted. Yes, I never miss a jab! ) insofar as modifiers are key. In many ways the game's "impossible" without them, but that's the design and it works well, especially since the players are a driving force behind said modifiers. Dark Heresy seem to be the same way, and I like it.

My players and I weren't happy with the rules for better quality weapons at all. We didn't mind a bit of added complexity so we came up with a system for more advanced weapons, ranging from pistols all the way up to best quailty Lascannons. Granted, some of the bespoke items are ridicously expensive, but we have a pair of nobles in the party so the income is fairly massive. it took more work to mage it on armour, but the more we use it the better it gets and we discover flaws and nasty combinations.

Varius said:

I suppose it's a quibble... but how much more accurate can a laser gun actually get? Shouldn't it almost instantly hit whatever you point it at within visual range? So the question is how good you are at pointing it.

I am the only who thinks that its a HUGE advantage to be able to shoot no matter what?

When my players have experienced a Jammed Gun, they have been in for a world of hurt. They have purchased good and best quality guns, because then they know, no matter what the situation is, they can keep on shooting.

It doesn't matter of your gun is Accurate og Gyro-stabilized if it can't shoot...

It's not just guns, either. I mean, who's going to buy more expensive clothing when it doesn't do anything but cost more? I again stress the use of NWoD-like situational modifiers, especially since the players drive a lot of it, which can really help to get them into the game.

People are going to buy more expensive clothing for the same reason they do in real life...

bogi_khaosa said:

For the situational modifiers!

Graver said:

Exactly!

Graver said:

Some things are like trying to get into a nightclub wearing sneakers and what you woke up in, "just ain't gunna happen mate"

Acolytes are meant to not stick out in their environment for the most part, the scum swims in the social swamp that is the hive sump and the noble wallows around up the top with everyone else somewhere in between.

They've all got their place and it isn't really meant for some people to be operating above their station in the Imperium, hence the massive disparity between rich and poor in terms of equipment, its **** hard to progress past humble or not so humble beginnings (though it is possible to fall I suppose...) without bending the rules in a way, which is where being an Acolyte comes in. Its a once in a lifetime opportunity for a lot characters that players must remember to keep in mind 'how' they behave, that if they somehow do manage to survive the trials the Inquisition throws at them, there is the potential for them to rise out of that concrete social strata and onto something else they could never attain even with a big wad of thrones- real power.

The Imperium doesn't function the same as westernised capitalist society, a big wad of thrones might mean you're not sleeping in a back alley somewhere, but in essence it doesn't really buy you much else in terms of respect in a lot of ways moving around that social circle. Thats why even the rich as blazers nobs will work for the inquisition, for most they'll spend their lives as wastrels, layabouts and moochers unless given a chance to actually do something useful and advance their own lineage outside the temperal wealth their family provides, because fate can make even nobles broke in short order unless they fight desperately to keep that wealth in place, just as much as a scummer will fight like a right bastard to keep what he has and being in the inquisition is a big ace up the sleeve in terms of maintaining that.

My acolytes can walk away any time they want, maybe somewhat wealthier (and definately crazier) for the time spent as an acolyte, but you'll just always be 'just another' scrub, prole or a wastrel once your arse hits the ground outside the tricorn palace.