I know it is a month old; did anyone read this article Hobby Games Market Hit $700M?

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/29326.html

FFG is in the Top 5 in three of the 4 categories and 6 in the other?

It was makes me sick that 40K is still number one for the non-collectible miniatures

You people make me sick :-P

Go the firefly boardgame.

I do have a copy butt yet to play it. No interest in my group.

Nice...! but why non-collectible?

For me x-wing is as a game as a collectible miniatures, at least I think that my ships looks great on the shelf.

Nice...! but why non-collectible?

For me x-wing is as a game as a collectible miniatures, at least I think that my ships looks great on the shelf.

Non-collectable in the sense that they are not numbered and sold in random boosters.

You know exactly what you're paying for.

yes, I love to play, but am probably more collector than player as well. though i would love to get to play a lot more than I do.

The use of the term collectible is always odd to be.

Someone once asked me if X-Wing is collectible and I froze, thinking, "well you can collect them, but that obvious so why is he asking me this question". Then a friend of mine piped in and said, "he means does it have enforced scarcity". Then the question made sense.

The term collectible in the context of games is 1. A polite phrasing and 2. Not clear unless someone defines it for you.

That is awesome.

However, does this surprise anyone?

You have a good foundation for a game (already proven with Wings of War and Star Trek), then you add a license that has huge appeal anyway. Top it off with pre-painted minis that actually look good to cut out barriers to entry to get the non-minis players... I think it was destined to be a hit.

And seeing that FF was surprised by the demand (remember those production issues they had and you couldn't find a non-starter box product?), I'd say we have a hit.

P.S.: I know WM and Hordes are TECHNICALLY different games, it's still silly to separate those two games.

Ooh, the Star Wars RPG is straddled between Pathfinder and Shadowrun. I was going to use the old WEG system when running Star Wars, but I might just pick up Edge of Empire instead.

I agree entirely that Warmachine and Hordes should be considered the same game. Would that alter their position in the rankings, though?

It was makes me sick that 40K is still number one for the non-collectible miniatures

You people make me sick :-P

Hey, don't blame me. I left 40k (and GW for that matter) back in 2012 when X-Wing hit the scene and haven't looked back since. I'm not the only one and I long for the day GW goes out of business.

That is awesome.

However, does this surprise anyone?

You have a good foundation for a game (already proven with Wings of War and Star Trek), then you add a license that has huge appeal anyway. Top it off with pre-painted minis that actually look good to cut out barriers to entry to get the non-minis players... I think it was destined to be a hit.

And seeing that FF was surprised by the demand (remember those production issues they had and you couldn't find a non-starter box product?), I'd say we have a hit.

P.S.: I know WM and Hordes are TECHNICALLY different games, it's still silly to separate those two games.

heh, X-Wing beat Attack Wing to market. Wizkids is licensing Fantasy Flight's Flightpath System to use in Star Trek. If anything, Wings of War and X-Wing proved the foundation for Attack Wing.

It was makes me sick that 40K is still number one for the non-collectible miniatures

That Attack Wing is 3rd is IMO worse.

It was makes me sick that 40K is still number one for the non-collectible miniatures

That Attack Wing is 3rd is IMO worse.

Well, when you put out a wave every other month while not worrying about play testing or quality paint jobs on your product to a crowd of gamers who have to buy your product if they want to remain competitive in your events, you're going to sell quite a few minis.

Lol Warmachine and Hordes are the same game and are played together. Combined they are the second most popular game around. I question this list.

So, $125M in sales for all non-collectible miniatures. Now lets assume that X-wing at #2 has between 5% to 15% market share. And lets assume that the average person spent between $50 - $250 in the spring.

That means that there are between 25,000 to 375,000 active X-wing players worldwide.

Attendance at Regionals was 2000 players. So most people don't play competitively. (Myself included so far, but that will change next year).

Like I said, their rank order is skewed because of how they incorrectly split Warmachine/Hordes. That is one game, and the biggest competitor for WH40k. Warmahordes is so large they have their own conventions, Privateer Press publishes its own magazine about the Iron Kingdoms (think White Dwarf, but with content and no adds). No matter how much I love X-Wing and FFG, its not at the same. It would be good if they published their methodology and some figures.

I would also be hesitant about using the regional numbers. I am sure my group are not the only ones that attended multiple regional, so that count of 2000 has multiple counts of the same people.

I would estimate player base world wide to be 15-20 thousand at the HIGH end. No way there are 375k Xwing players worldwide. (Even though there should be).

I would also be hesitant about using the regional numbers. I am sure my group are not the only ones that attended multiple regional, so that count of 2000 has multiple counts of the same people.

I would estimate player base world wide to be 15-20 thousand at the HIGH end. No way there are 375k Xwing players worldwide. (Even though there should be).

Yeah. More likely they don't have anything near 10% market share, and the people that do buy spend oodles of money.

Like I said, their rank order is skewed because of how they incorrectly split Warmachine/Hordes. That is one game, and the biggest competitor for WH40k.

That is debatable. There is a rule book for Warmachine and a rule book for Horeds. They are separate games that use the same rules. Even PP has them listed separately on their web page.

They're also not exactly the same game, a Hoard list plays quite a bit differently then a Warmachine list does due to the difference between Focus and Fury.

The games are compatible, but they're not really the same game.

It was makes me sick that 40K is still number one for the non-collectible miniatures

That Attack Wing is 3rd is IMO worse.

Well, when you put out a wave every other month while not worrying about play testing or quality paint jobs on your product to a crowd of gamers who have to buy your product if they want to remain competitive in your events, you're going to sell quite a few minis.

Wait, are you talking about wiz kids or games workshop here?

In seriousness though, you have to keep in mind some info about these numbers. They were produced by an extensive poll done of just North American independent retailers. So all their numbers are for North America only. They also don't take into account direct sales from company websites (which would prop up GWs numbers quite a lot) and they rely on what the store owners are reporting. It's a useful poll, but shouldn't be considered hard and fast numbers for the global community.

That is debatable. There is a rule book for Warmachine and a rule book for Horeds. They are separate games that use the same rules. Even PP has them listed separately on their web page.

They're also not exactly the same game, a Hoard list plays quite a bit differently then a Warmachine list does due to the difference between Focus and Fury.

The games are compatible, but they're not really the same game.

I've been playing Warmachine for 8 years now. I have three Warmachine Armies (Cygnar, Khador and Mercenaries) and a Hordes Skorne army. There are differences between Warlocks/Beasts and Warcasters/Jacks with respect to fury generation and focus allocation, but beyond that, its the same game. Additionally, you can take Warcasters in a Hordes army (Magnus with Skorne) and you can take Horde's casters in a Warmachine army (Rosh and Brine with Protectorate).

Its like saying Empire lists play differently from Rebel lists which will play differently from Scum lists. The RULES are still the same (beyond fury and focus, which are big and important parts of the rules).

When Warhammer is so much older than X-Wing it gives them a bigger foundation to work off of even if that foundation happens to be crumbling a bit. I've never looked at and don't know the criteria for these lists but if their prices are higher and "add ons" equal that also helps push them up.

Another problem with "ranked lists" is that you don't always know what the gap is although that may be explained in the actual piece.

Ooh, the Star Wars RPG is straddled between Pathfinder and Shadowrun. I was going to use the old WEG system when running Star Wars, but I might just pick up Edge of Empire instead.

When it comes to Star Wars RPGs have you seen/tried the SAGA Edition? I'll admit I've never had the chance to really look at EotE but have looked at the previous SWRPGs and believe SWSE is by far the best of those. In my opinion it is good enough that I'm not even all that tempted to look at EotE although I must admit that SWSE lacks in adventure support.

I've been playing Warmachine for 8 years now.

I've been playing it for 2 or 3 myself.

(beyond fury and focus, which are big and important parts of the rules).

The point is, that the rules are not exactly the same, they may be compatible, but if you buy the Mk II Prime book for Warmachine, you don't have the rules needed to play a Hordes list, and visa versa.

So the rules aren't the same, which makes them a different but compatible game. Which you even agree with in the above post. Besides PP themselves treat them as separate games, they're in different categories on the store, on the forms, on the web page, ect...

If I need a different rule book to play a Hordes list, then I use to run my Warmachine list, then they are clearly not the same game.

Hm. I guess since X-wing is non-collectible, I will have to stop referring to my "collection."

Hm. I guess since X-wing is non-collectible, I will have to stop referring to my "collection."

I refer to it as my big mess of joy and happiness. or my BOMJH... which admittedly doesn't roll off the tongue well.

I hate when the word "collectable" in miniatures games refers to "limited supply" especially when coupled with "random availability."

Limited availability just mean "get them when they come out," which really isn't so bad provide a given pieces isn't required for successful play. Random availability wouldn't even be all bad IF everything was actually balanced against everything else so that any two random pieces have an equal chance against another; of course they never do that with random piece.