There is 4-5 lightsaber crystals that a knight level character can buy at creation (more if you're using multiple tracks, like Duty and Morality at the saame time, but I'll ignore those for now)

Other than the Training Emitter, the cheapest is the Loridan Gemstone. This one is so cheap, you can build a Taipani Lightfoil with a Shoto Hilt, Superior hilt personalization, and this crystal, as a brand new knight with 50 morality and +2500 credits, without any mods, for 6 damage, Defensive, Accurate, reach, Sunder and with an automaic advantage. (trade accuate for +2 damage if you go for a normal hilt instead of a shoto)

The Ilum crystal is next cheapest... and really is kinda weak. Even compared to the Loridan, it has less base damage and lacks the Defensive attribute, not to mention is also rarity 10. It's sole claim to fame is the ability to stack an improbable number of mods on it to bring it up to EoE lightsaber stats.

Next is the Mephite Crystal, at 10,000c- you need a 50 morality with a credit option to get a hilt to go with one of these. In return you get 8 base damage and the option to mod it to 11 (damage, not an allusion), and can always be found by the Sence power... for good or ill.

Last is the Dantari Crystal- if you get the +2500c option with your morality, you can just barely grab a basic or shoto hilt to go with it, if you dont mind eating ramen for the next few months. Another 7 base damage gem, it restores strain when rolling the force die in combat, as if each pip could be spent as 2 advantage. Combos well with move/hurl and the Enhance tree.

My question is, why is the Illum Crystal so weak? it has literally nothing going for it.

I would say that Illum is the weakest because it is the most common, but it has rarity 10, and several others have lower rarities (the Dragite Gem, at 7, being the most common).

I might speculate that it technically is the most common crystal, but most of them have been put into the Emperor's secret vaults, under heavy guard. As I understand it, it was THE crystal for practically the entire Jedi Order. (Illum is the official gemstone of the Jedi Order! Buy yours today! Offer good while supplies last, void where prohibited. Oh, that's right - they're prohibited everywhere . Have a nice day, and thank you for shopping! Come back soon.)

While the Lorrdian has a higher base damage, its damage can't be increased, though it makes a very nice defensive weapon. If I get a chance, I'd make an off-hand Lightsaber with Lorrdian. Lorrdian is significantly less expensive than Ilum.

Ilum has a lot of options (obviously), which is good and bad. The bad is that you're unlikely to be able to get them all on a single crystal, and doing so will be rather expensive (2800 credits, if I do the math right). The good is that it can make a pretty hefty offensive lightsaber with even a few of the mods.

Mephite is slightly more expensive than Ilum. It doesn't look like it's very much better when maxed out (1 more damage, 1 less Vicious), but it starts off with 25% more base damage. Pretty good deal for your credit, if you're not worried about Inquisitors using it to track you down. It still has enough mod options that it's unlikely to be fully modded.

Upgrades, man! You gotta have upgrades!

I'm assuming that the Loridan Genstone is basically out of upgrades at your point, or has few options. However, Ilum can get up to 12 dmg (Superior Extended Hilt, maybe even some more bits if you wish). If you still see this is weak. Then give out examples of cost and all abilities for all crystals assuming you get Curved, Extended, and Superior Hilt Modifications and finish all the mods for the given crystal.

The discussion is about lightsaber crystals, and does not consider the hilts and other attachments.

This makes sense, because crystals are interchangeable (mechanically, not stat-wise).

While it's true that a Illum crystal can be Damage 10 on its own, that is an extremely unlikely event. (Plus Vicious 2 and Decreased Crit Cost to 1)

Okay, then don't include hilt mods, just fully upgraded crystals with overall cost (also, each extra mod is 100 cr when you add modification options, meaning a fully upgraded Ilum crystal in a basic Lightsaber will be equal stats to the EotE/AoR Lightsabers). I can easily imagine the hilt mods by myself.

Okay, then don't include hilt mods, just fully upgraded crystals with overall cost (also, each extra mod is 100 cr when you add modification options, meaning a fully upgraded Ilum crystal in a basic Lightsaber will be equal stats to the EotE/AoR Lightsabers). I can easily imagine the hilt mods by myself.

Mods, much like with difficulty, increase in cost (an extra 100 credits) for each attachment (pg 134 in FaD; in the general "Modding Attachments" that can be found in the rest of the books). So 1st mod is a 3 Difficulty check with 100 credits in parts, 2nd mod is 3 Difficulty with 200 credits in parts, 3rd mod is 4 Difficulty with 300 credits, etc.

So the Ilum crystal's mods alone stack up to 2,800 credits in parts.

Okay, then don't include hilt mods, just fully upgraded crystals with overall cost (also, each extra mod is 100 cr when you add modification options, meaning a fully upgraded Ilum crystal in a basic Lightsaber will be equal stats to the EotE/AoR Lightsabers). I can easily imagine the hilt mods by myself.

Mods, much like with difficulty, increase in cost (an extra 100 credits) for each attachment (pg 134 in FaD; in the general "Modding Attachments" that can be found in the rest of the books). So 1st mod is a 3 Difficulty check with 100 credits in parts, 2nd mod is 3 Difficulty with 200 credits in parts, 3rd mod is 4 Difficulty with 300 credits, etc.

So the Ilum crystal's mods alone stack up to 2,800 credits in parts.

I wouldn't allow my pcs to buy any of the crystals at Knight-level start. The choice is "lightsaber or 10000 credits", not "10000 credits to buy a lightsaber parts and game the system".

So the saber they get will start with an Ilum crystal.

And I think that's the intent by the devs.

Okay, then don't include hilt mods, just fully upgraded crystals with overall cost (also, each extra mod is 100 cr when you add modification options, meaning a fully upgraded Ilum crystal in a basic Lightsaber will be equal stats to the EotE/AoR Lightsabers). I can easily imagine the hilt mods by myself.

Mods, much like with difficulty, increase in cost (an extra 100 credits) for each attachment (pg 134 in FaD; in the general "Modding Attachments" that can be found in the rest of the books). So 1st mod is a 3 Difficulty check with 100 credits in parts, 2nd mod is 3 Difficulty with 200 credits in parts, 3rd mod is 4 Difficulty with 300 credits, etc.

So the Ilum crystal's mods alone stack up to 2,800 credits in parts.

I'm not sure it works that way.... not the way it is written in RAW...

Difficulty does increase with each new mod, but cost is 200 creds for 2nd, 3rd, and so forth...

Maybe Donovan or another can confirm this... but I saw it in another thread...

I want a saber with a Krayt Dragon Pearl, please. How much money do I need to beg the other PCs for in order to buy one? Am i better off just taking a metal detector and shovel to Tatooine?

I want a saber with a Krayt Dragon Pearl, please. How much money do I need to beg the other PCs for in order to buy one? Am i better off just taking a metal detector and shovel to Tatooine?

You need to tank 2 tracks of obligation/duty/morality into just credits, just to get the crystal. you'll have to assemble a hilt in play.

Okay, then don't include hilt mods, just fully upgraded crystals with overall cost (also, each extra mod is 100 cr when you add modification options, meaning a fully upgraded Ilum crystal in a basic Lightsaber will be equal stats to the EotE/AoR Lightsabers). I can easily imagine the hilt mods by myself.

Mods, much like with difficulty, increase in cost (an extra 100 credits) for each attachment (pg 134 in FaD; in the general "Modding Attachments" that can be found in the rest of the books). So 1st mod is a 3 Difficulty check with 100 credits in parts, 2nd mod is 3 Difficulty with 200 credits in parts, 3rd mod is 4 Difficulty with 300 credits, etc.

So the Ilum crystal's mods alone stack up to 2,800 credits in parts.

I'm not sure it works that way.... not the way it is written in RAW...

Difficulty does increase with each new mod, but cost is 200 creds for 2nd, 3rd, and so forth...

Maybe Donovan or another can confirm this... but I saw it in another thread...

From the book:

Each additional mod installed in an attachment beyond the first increases the difficulty of the Mechanics check by one, and costs an additional 100 credits beyond the base cost.

If it meant to cap out at 200 credits, it would instead say "... check by one, and the cost is increased to 200 credits total," or something similar.

There's also this from D20 Radio (segment starts at 1:01, but the specifics on further mods is at around 1:26):

https://ia600609.us.archive.org/26/items/Order66PodcastEpisode26-GottaHandCannonItToHer/episode26.mp3

Good recording. Note around an hour and a half, they discuss increasing the difficulty on the fourth mod to 6 difficulty dice vs. 5 and Destiny. They determine 5 and Destiny is correct according to RAW, but one of the hosts is obviously less than perfectly happy with this interpretation.

It seems to me that the mod system must have been discussed in the past, and I'm frankly surprised at a couple things about the system:

1) The difficulty goes beyond impossible very quickly - perhaps it starts a step too difficult, but that only helps 1 mod.

2) While it makes sense that a failed mod attempt destroys the parts used to make the mod (that is, 100cr * mod number is lost), I have never understood the reasoning that no further attempt at making that mod is possible. Why can't you just go out, buy the components (spending 100cr * mod number), and try again?

Sorry to be a bit off-topic.

Some people go up to 5 difficulty and then start upgrading to challenge dice for each additional step. That's what I tend to do. (for crafting in particular)

After getting my hands on the F&D beta I am starting to think the Lightsaber listed in AoE and EotE needs to be more expensive. Has anyone figured out how much it would cost and the rolls involved to create one?

After getting my hands on the F&D beta I am starting to think the Lightsaber listed in AoE and EotE needs to be more expensive. Has anyone figured out how much it would cost and the rolls involved to create one?

Standard Hilt = 300

Ilum Crystal = 9,000

Ilum Mods = 2,800

Grand total of 12,100 credits. The various checks would be for modding the crystal, and starts from 3 Difficulty Mechanics, and progresses up to 4 Challenge Dice and 1 Difficulty Die.

It could be errata'd for AoR and EotE, either upping the price or matching the stats of what's in FaD, but since neither of those book's focus is being a Jedi and using lightsabers (per RAW, you can't take the lightsaber skill in those games at all - so no cutting corners with stuff like Well Rounded), it's probably fine as is. Like the EotE/AoR lightsaber can't have any extra attachments, it technically doesn't specify a crystal so you can't yank the crystal out when it's destroyed, and it's mostly just meant to be something for the random force users you toss at the party (either as an ally or something else).

And really, the only way you can implement stuff like in FaD is if you were to own it, at which point you could feel free to change stuff as you like - deciding what's best for your group.

One solution would simply be to merge Ilim's 4 +1 damage mods into 2 +2 mods, making it start lower and finish lower, but be easier to get high numbers with less mods.