Teokrata: Huh, do you find you can still get enough done without PtL on Jax? Does it come down to making sure you have an even more oblique approach?

I love interceptors and love PTL on them, but some things changed, there are whispers and there are high PS pilots trying to hunt whisper, the thing is: PS9 Whisper outflight PS8 Jax and kill him, PS10 Jax outflight and kill PS9 Whisper nad PS11 Han Solo especialy with EU outflight and kill both of them hard times

The thing about interceptors vs. turrets is that the opponent is firing fewer shots, and you still have 3 agility. People often talk about 3 agility like it's a bad thing, but it truly is an asset. Those dice have gotten me out of trouble more often than they've betrayed me. It's just that the betrayals are more memorable.

Other thought: if you joust a turret straight on it's as if the turret can't shoot outside its arc i.e. wasted points for your opponent? It's something I've been thinking about with respect to flying interceptors.

This is such a huge point that I didn't understand at first. The Falcon (or even the feared HLC-Outrider) can in an absolute best case scenario drop one squint a round. This assumes some moderately hot dice on the part of the Falcon (though not as hot as it initially seems w/ Gunner et al.) and truly dreadful rolling from the Interceptor. If you use the Focus on Defense (or take an evade with PTL) you can take a round or two of shooting.

Bad luck is still a problem, but it's a problem on the more expensive interceptors. One bad whiff on a 32 point Fel is a third of your force, but just taking 24 points on a PTL Sabre is survivable. The rest of your squad (let's say three PTL Sabres, for arguments sake) can blast the Falcon down.

Yes, there are escorts around to worry about. But Z's are going to have a hard time getting through our 3 Green dice with their 2 reds.

The real question seems to be do we rush to R1 against the Falcon and try to focus it down immediately, or do we play the snipers game at R3 and boost our greens. I instinctively favor the rush, but maybe it's time to expand.

Expect losses though. I know we squint players want to dodge everything and live for ever, but that's unlikely to happen. Accept the losses for the greater good of the Empire.

Next game I'll play, casually of course, I'm tempted to make a Defender + Interceptor escort and can't decide between:

Rexler Brath + Predator + HLC

Soontir Fel + PtL

Lieutenant Lorrir

or

Rexler Brath + Predator

Soontir Fel + PtL

Carnor Jax + PtL

In the first list, I'm under the impression that my opponents will prefer to shoot at Rexler and Soontir first, leaving Lorrir to flank properly and hopefully to kill the highest PS ships first so his barrel Roll come very handy in the end game.

I like the idea behind the first list, but I think the second is much stronger. Jax will help (ideally) spread out their target focus, shoot faster, and limit their damage potential while helping maximize yours. You have the usual risks of elite squads (swarms, bad rolls), but I think it seems fun. I may try it out when next I play.

skillful flying doesn't get you what it used to.

I used to totally agree with you on this. I hate(d) the Falcon when I first played against it, because the turret seems to counter everything I most want to do with my birds. My favorite memory in this game is still when I first flew PTL Soontir. He was my last ship and I managed to Barrel Roll + Boost right past the arc of Luke Skywalker onto the tail of a Gold Squadron Y-Wing that I then vaped. I had, maybe, 1 milimeter to spare on each side of my base. I felt like a boss--I had seen the opening, took it, and then proceeded to make my opponent pay. He couldn't handle my maneuverability and so I won. The Falcon, it seemed to me, took that away.

As I've played more though, I've begun to see things differently. The Falcon doesn't negate skillful flying. Instead, it alters the skills. It is not longer about dodging arcs, but about hiding behind asteroids and knowing when to rush in to R1 for the kill. When do you spend the focus on D or save for an attack? Who can you sacrifice and how do you make sure he/she takes the shots for the team? I know you were speaking in jest, but this acknowledgement of others forms of skill seems like it will help the community in its efforts to grapple with the Fat Falcon.

You're probably right, but it rankles a bit how the Imperial ships I like are so much more vulnerable to chance, at least since there's so much more heavy turret play to worry about. I've lost critical games because Howlrunner was blasted at range three through an asteroid, and that never happens to a Falcon. Ultimately it is a challenge, but in other games, Attack Wing, for example, when I've tried to meet innate advantages with clever flying it's often not been enough.

The Undesirables:

Lieutenant Lorrir (23)

Kir Kanos (24)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fleet Officer (3)

Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fleet Officer (3)

Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Total: 99

Do not take this into a competition.

I don't know why people don't like Kir Kanos. He does so well in ruining everyone's force passing and evade token spending. I guess it is because he dies allot, but combine him with Captian Kagi and you won't need to block as those 2 effectively stop almost all actions.

Finally got around to using the Lt for the first time yesterday and I really liked him...was fortunate my opponent fielded no PS higher than a 4 (hes still pretty new and I am teaching him.)

Question popped up though...can Lorrir use his trixy barrel roll to place the bank manuver in a positon to make him move backwards (similar to decloaking with echo?) I couldnt see why not as Echo could do it with the decloak so we played as though he could...

But I want to be sure.

Finally got around to using the Lt for the first time yesterday and I really liked him...was fortunate my opponent fielded no PS higher than a 4 (hes still pretty new and I am teaching him.)

Question popped up though...can Lorrir use his trixy barrel roll to place the bank manuver in a positon to make him move backwards (similar to decloaking with echo?) I couldnt see why not as Echo could do it with the decloak so we played as though he could...

But I want to be sure.

The Undesirables:

Lieutenant Lorrir (23)

Kir Kanos (24)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fleet Officer (3)

Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Omicron Group Pilot (21)

Fleet Officer (3)

Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Total: 99

Do not take this into a competition.

I don't know why people don't like Kir Kanos. He does so well in ruining everyone's force passing and evade token spending. I guess it is because he dies allot, but combine him with Captian Kagi and you won't need to block as those 2 effectively stop almost all actions.

I think you mistook him for Carnor Jax. Kir Kanos is the pilot that can spend an evade token to add a hit when he attack. I believe he will start to see more table time soon since the two thing that made him bad can be resolve.

1- Lack of EPT. With Field Officer, you will finally be able to make a focus evade attack, that should help him bring more pain.

2- PS6. Before wave 4, a lot of team were using mainly low PS ship, which meant that if Kanos used his evade token for offence, he was left as an easy prey with no token for the lowest PS ship. Now that more and more build use highPS ships, he's more likely to attack last and use his evade token if he still have it without the risk of retaliation.

The fate of the interceptor lies in new mods and a meta shift. They are very flexible in mods unlike many ships but there are not two mods they would like to take most of the time. And, as of right now, nothing has displaced PTL...going to be rough to do so.

The interceptor thrives in a low to mid PS environment where it can take advantage of its maneuverability and PS. Right now the biggest bullies in the meta out PS, out gun, out maneuver, and out upgrade it. Short of hull upgrade instead of shield/stealth the interceptor hasn't changed since wave 2. Many will point at TC but that's a luxury and only an option because lack of other options. Meanwhile falcons get better with every release and now we will see 3 large turreted ships to deal with. Any great EPT that makes interceptors better makes phantoms better... Mods have been underwhelming at best.

Still probably the most fun ship to fly in the imperial arsonal. I look forward to the future but I'm pretty realistic about it's current status.

Finally got around to using the Lt for the first time yesterday and I really liked him...was fortunate my opponent fielded no PS higher than a 4 (hes still pretty new and I am teaching him.)

Question popped up though...can Lorrir use his trixy barrel roll to place the bank manuver in a positon to make him move backwards (similar to decloaking with echo?) I couldnt see why not as Echo could do it with the decloak so we played as though he could...

But I want to be sure.

yes, you can set it to curve backwards.

Cool thanks.

Good to know.

Alright, I don't think I can bring a pure interceptor squad; I fear Predator too much. What do you think about these squads?

4x Avenger Sq. Pilot

"Howlrunner" + a 2pt upgrade

OR

4x Saber Sq. Pilot

"Backstabber"

I don't know. I think I'm going to need Soontir Fel. Just can't fly without him!

Howl is going to. have a hard time keeping up w those interceptors.

The fate of the interceptor lies in new mods and a meta shift. They are very flexible in mods unlike many ships but there are not two mods they would like to take most of the time. And, as of right now, nothing has displaced PTL...going to be rough to do so.

The interceptor thrives in a low to mid PS environment where it can take advantage of its maneuverability and PS. Right now the biggest bullies in the meta out PS, out gun, out maneuver, and out upgrade it. Short of hull upgrade instead of shield/stealth the interceptor hasn't changed since wave 2. Many will point at TC but that's a luxury and only an option because lack of other options. Meanwhile falcons get better with every release and now we will see 3 large turreted ships to deal with. Any great EPT that makes interceptors better makes phantoms better... Mods have been underwhelming at best.

Still probably the most fun ship to fly in the imperial arsonal. I look forward to the future but I'm pretty realistic about it's current status.

It remains cheaper than these options that outgun, outmaneuver, and out upgrade it (I assume you're thinking mostly Falcon + Phantoms?), and there are very few who out PS Fel, Jax, Fennir and the rest. It doesn't need a miracle upgrade to be effective and turrets don't autokill it. I admit that it's not always the most effective ship, but I think we may be overreacting a bit. A squint swarm could still be quite nasty.

Alright, I don't think I can bring a pure interceptor squad; I fear Predator too much. What do you think about these squads?

4x Avenger Sq. Pilot

"Howlrunner" + a 2pt upgrade

OR

4x Saber Sq. Pilot

"Backstabber"

I don't know. I think I'm going to need Soontir Fel. Just can't fly without him!

Why not 5 Avengers? They won't be effected by Predator.

You could also consider:

Fel + PTL

Phennir + VI

Lorrir

Saber

Fairly elite, fairly maneuverable, but still a decent amount of bodies.

Alright, I don't think I can bring a pure interceptor squad; I fear Predator too much. What do you think about these squads?

4x Avenger Sq. Pilot

"Howlrunner" + a 2pt upgrade

OR

4x Saber Sq. Pilot

"Backstabber"

I don't know. I think I'm going to need Soontir Fel. Just can't fly without him!

Why not 5 Avengers? They won't be effected by Predator.

The short answer: I only own 4 TIE interceptor expansion packs. But it is an online tournament so I could probably proxy. Or "borrow" a friend's interceptor from the forums

Major Juggler's idea to reduce the Alpha Sq. Pilot's cost to 17 seemed weird to me, but it allows for Alpha's AND Soontir Fel + PtL, which is what I would run if I had enough points. I can't decide between elite interceptors or 5 cheap ones. I guess those could be my two squads...

I like the idea, really. I've been playing with Avenger's lately, but they seem a tad pricey. Same for the Alpha. Shaving off those points make them a little easier to ignore when they get lit up.

Squint-heads: How do y'all think about bumping with your ships? I know it seems like death with Fel, but could it be good with an Alpha?

I like the idea, really. I've been playing with Avenger's lately, but they seem a tad pricey. Same for the Alpha. Shaving off those points make them a little easier to ignore when they get lit up.

Squint-heads: How do y'all think about bumping with your ships? I know it seems like death with Fel, but could it be good with an Alpha?

I personnally believe that if you want to run a pure Interceptor squadron, you are better off running 4 including some elites than 5 grunts. Having a higher PS to dodge arcs is better than a fifth ship that will shoot late, if he gets the chance to shoot at all.

Which come to your next question, bumping. I sometime like to include an Alpha Interceptor in a pure Squint squadron to block, but that's pretty much the only occasion where I would do it, and that is if my opponent doesn't ignore it. Mixed with higher PS ships, it seems like my opponents tend to ignore the Alpha.

Soontir Fel + PtL

Carnor Jax + PtL

Lieutenant Lorrir

Alpha Squadron Pilot

Alternatively, replace Jax for Turr.

I ran this against a Han/Corran list:

Soontir Fel (Push the Limit)

Carnor Jax (Push the Limit)

Royal Guard Pilot (Push the Limit)

Black Squadron Pilot (Wingman)

100 points

It worked pretty well. Okay, it worked like a charm except for the fact that I didn't win. On the first real exchange Carnor Jax was in range 1 of Corran, who then couldn't use Focus or Evade. We destroyed him right there. Then we had a tough time maneuvering around Han. I kept forgetting he didn't have Engine Upgrade, so I think I made some mistakes. But the 3 agility dice are incredible! We dodged Han so much!

In the end it was Han with 6 hull vs. Soontir with 1. I managed to tag a crit, Injured Pilot, which was huge. But then I got cocky and after a bump decided to K-turn again, and got lit up. Shoulda played the safe game. In the end, Han had 4 hull left.

Wingman was used about 6 or 7 times, but I think only 3 of those mattered i.e. I could pull a non-green maneuver after Push the Limit. It felt great!

I like the idea, really. I've been playing with Avenger's lately, but they seem a tad pricey. Same for the Alpha. Shaving off those points make them a little easier to ignore when they get lit up.

Squint-heads: How do y'all think about bumping with your ships? I know it seems like death with Fel, but could it be good with an Alpha?

If you mean "blocking" instead of bumping for profit, then yes the Alpha works well enough. Take Evade with that Alpha if you know you're in arc. I used to use one beside Turr, backstabber, and Vader. Getting another action at PS 9 helps when you REALLY need it.

My problem with the Alpha is that for 2 pts less I can take Backstabber, who, for all purposes besides blocking, is the superior bargin. You lose boost and a little bit of dial but gaining PS 6 is huge. Those 2pts are usually better spent upgrading elsewhere or for an init bid.

Are people seriously arguing for cheaper priced squints!? :/ Wild. In our play group we nicknamed the threads namesake Lt. LOL-ir because he can just troll-a-roll you. If the falcon problem goes away(yes I see it as aproblem, whatevs) squints could come back in a huge way.

The only interceptors I would say are overcosted are the mid level named pilots and the generics. If they were all retroactively costed vs. the RGP and/or given EPTs I think they'd be fine.

I think the "cheaper" calls are really only for a few (Lorrir, Kanos, Fel's Wrath) and the Saber/Avenger/Alphas who now feel out of whack. IF they are, AND I think that's a big IF, it's one point.

I don't think Interceptors are overpriced. But I think some people are so used of doing 2 actions per turn with Interceptors that they'll discard those that can't take an EPT. When you take Kanos and Lorrir and compare them to the RGP, I think they are priced correctly.

For Kanos, you have the same PS. If his ability was an EPT, I think it would cost at least 2 points. So just think of him as a RGP with his EPT slot already taken. Problem is that his ability is not as useful as PtL so until we get Field Officer or other means to pass tokens, he won't see a lot of play.

For Lorrir, you lose 1 PS but gain the abilty to do his special barrel roll. I think it is worth at least one more point when compared to a RGP. I personally really love to use him but can understand why some are more reluctant, and I don't think it's because of the price.

I wanted to like Lorrir but no matter what I did, he always got one-shotted whenever I used him. It didn't matter the dice results. I took my cue.

Consider what you do with LOL-ir. You stress out to change your angle 45 degrees and get off to a side and forward or back a bit.

Now consider what you do with PtL on any other squint much of the time. You can stress out to get a little forward and off to the side while changing your angle 45 degrees.

...Guys the dudes got PtL already, he just can only do the maneuvers combo with it only. If you gave him PtL he'd be at basically three actions. Now to do his barrel roll right he flies a bit differently from normal interceptors and takes practice.

The best thing about this post is the 'phonetic' spelling of his name so at least i know somebody else pronounces the rank properly!

Consider what you do with LOL-ir. You stress out to change your angle 45 degrees and get off to a side and forward or back a bit.

Now consider what you do with PtL on any other squint much of the time. You can stress out to get a little forward and off to the side while changing your angle 45 degrees.

...Guys the dudes got PtL already, he just can only do the maneuvers combo with it only. If you gave him PtL he'd be at basically three actions. Now to do his barrel roll right he flies a bit differently from normal interceptors and takes practice.

As much as I love Lorrir and flying him, he's lacking an option that only PtL Interceptor can do and pretty much the reason why a lot of people prefer PtL over any other EPT: Turtle Up.

Being able to take a focus AND evade token in the same turn can be the difference between life and death, especially against a turret, and even more so against a turret with Gunner. Being able to barrel roll and change facing at the same time doesn't mean jack when your opponent have a 360 line of sight and having both tokens can help you survive the second shot if you didn't use both on the first one.

Also, there is some situations where a regular Barrel Roll or boost will be enough. Having a second action to take a focus or evade can boost your attack or save you if you weren't able to clear all line of sight. Lorrir can certainly do the regular moves, but won't have a second action to help his rolls this turn.

Finally, his move is not exactly like doing a barrel roll + boost. You gain more distance by doing both action, which can be good or bad, depending on the situation. But Barrel Roll+Boost can sometimes push you in range 1 or get you out of range 3 where Lorrir ability won't. But, in other situations, Lorrir will allow you to change your facing and outmaneuver where a barrel roll+boost would make you bump so you would not be able to do it in the first place.

So, while I love Lorrir and the maneuver he can pull (as I said, I personally love to include him in my builds), you have more options with a PtL Interceptor. There is some games where his ability will be useless, in those case, he's just a regular Interceptor. In other games where his ability is pulled almost every turn, or just one magic turn, you will only have praise for him and how he changed the game. What I consider a very important thing about Lorrir is, don't make him your center piece, don't build your team around him like you would with some other units. At 23pts, he's a very good filler.

Exactly. If there were fewer turrets Lorrir might be good, but as it is he's just going to be one-shotted again and again no matter where he goes.

As much as I love Lorrir and flying him, he's lacking an option that only PtL Interceptor can do and pretty much the reason why a lot of people prefer PtL over any other EPT: Turtle Up.

This is it right here. But I do think there is still design space (for House Rules) for PS5 Interceptors that don't have an EPT. Their cost needs to be right, and the pilot ability needs to be good enough to justify it. It would be really cool to see mid range squints that don't have PtL!