This is the theoretical list we STARTED from (edited for correctness and updates):

Prince Xizor+ VI+ virago*+ Sensor jammer*+ stealth* + Autothrusters
Serissu+ body guard
12pt Z x3
100pts

A slightly more up to date version is at bottom of 1st post.

Essentially a 5 AG ship that changes a hit to a focus, rerolls a defense die, takes focus actions, and ignores the first damage from every attack in the round as long as one of his goons is around. This load out is, perhaps, a bit too much (major J, you know you want to run those numbers?)... If it is, there are 8-10pts to be used on illicit upgrades and perhaps more M3-As.

The pieces:

The Beast Under your Bed, in your closet, in your head: Xizor- The Prince, the core, the monster. Depending on how nasty that dial is (assuming near interceptor or better), this ship owns. It's everything you wanted the imperial interceptor to be (you often, in fact, outfit your interceptors with PTL and a sheild and stealth..hmmm). Except this interceptor can pay 1pt for a systems upgrade or the new and potentialally devastating illicit upgrade. And this interceptor can S loop AND passes off the first hit OR CRIT every attack to a nearby mook. Sensor Jammer acts as additional protection but I'm betting an illicit upgrade will take this spot, and probably cheaper to boot. Stealth is just extra cheese here, go hull or shave points, or is it Magic? He'll probably make it to endgame, he'll probably win an endgame vs. any lower PS ship.

Eastern Magic: Serissu- the little "seek" fighter that could. Reroll that defense die! No more all blanks on your interceptor again! Seriously great ability. And if they shoot at mooks first bunch them up and make them survive longer. The Elite slot can go one of 2 ways depending on the final dial of both main ships: wingman or bodyguard. If we're talking interceptor style dials on both then wingman is no longer needed but an extra agility for your heavy when needed is crazy in this build if you can instead choose bodyguard. That may overextend and make Serissu a target instead...that might still be ok; a Biggs effect for 20pts is nice as Xizor's ability and load out still carries him to the endgame.

The Sleepers- 3 Z's
HP. And guns. And maybe more. At PS one they are certainly going to be annoying and get in the way everywhere (like sand). And if you sleep on them they are just straight up HP for Xizor. With the agility reroll if you do target them I'm confident they are more point efficient than ties (prove me wrong or back me up math wingers!) And, here it comes again, they have the illicit upgrade. With up to 8*-10pts to play with these could become versital little monsters, increased PS, or even turn into M3-As. Potential.

Assumptions:
-both core ships will have interceptor type dials
---confident in the M3-A, may need wingman if the starviper's isn't.
-12pt Z's
---confirmed.


Naming:
Well...this ones a bit of a rabbit hole so hang on. Xizor is a prince, zzz = sleep, the M3-A is a "seek" fighter which sounds like "Sikh" and furthers the "sand" or "middle eastern" theme. Leads me to prince of Persia... Serrisu reminds me of Saracen, popular term for those of Muslim faith in the Middle Ages. Furthers eastern theme here. Metallica was playing in the background... Makes perfect sense now doesn't it?

This is the baseline we're looking at going forward:
Xizor+ virago+ Predator (or other awesome 3pt ept)+ awesome 3pt upgrade to be named (38)
"Named EPT holding Scyk" (18 pts or less)
Baseline Scyk (13pts)
2x z (24pts)

7pts or so left.

I proxied and ran it through some openings last night. Keeping 1 Z near Xizor wasn't too bad but keeping 4 ships around Serrissu felt constraining.

Used interceptor dial for starviper and M3-A

Yeah, my biggest concern is that you're all stacked up in a Range 1 group. Assault Missiles and Ion Torpedoes are going to frustrate you if/when they appear, and--making reasonable assumptions about the StarViper dial--you're really going to struggle to keep Xizor in Range 1 of both Serissu and the skulls.

This list is far from reality (right now) but will certainly be a beast if things play out as expected.

Prince Xizor+ptl+ virago*+ Sensor jammer*+ stealth*

Serissu+ body guard

12pt Z x3

100pts

Essentially a 5 AG ship that changes a hit to a focus, rerolls a defense die, evade and focus actions, and ignores the first damage from every attack in the round as long as one of his goons is around. This load out is, perhaps, a bit too much (major J, you know you want to run those numbers?)... If it is, there are 8pts to be used on illicit upgrades and perhaps more M3-As.

Pinning this for later...

Quick comment now though, the StarViper has about the same statline jousting efficiency as the TIE Interceptor. It's just a little beefier so it's not as much of a glass cannon. I'm interested to see what the dial and Illicit upgrades are.

I'm not overly sold on Sirissu as a Bodyguard. His ability doesn't work on himself (based on the Howlrunner precedent), so it's basically like saying "Shoot this one first." Ideally, if like to upgrade one of those Z95s to the EPT Generic Scyk and make that the bodyguard. That way, Sirissu still keeps his focus on defense.

This list is far from reality (right now) but will certainly be a beast if things play out as expected.

Prince Xizor+ptl+ virago*+ Sensor jammer*+ stealth*

Serissu+ body guard

12pt Z x3

100pts

Essentially a 5 AG ship that changes a hit to a focus, rerolls a defense die, evade and focus actions, and ignores the first damage from every attack in the round as long as one of his goons is around. This load out is, perhaps, a bit too much (major J, you know you want to run those numbers?)... If it is, there are 8pts to be used on illicit upgrades and perhaps more M3-As.

Pinning this for later...

Quick comment now though, the StarViper has about the same statline jousting efficiency as the TIE Interceptor. It's just a little beefier so it's not as much of a glass cannon. I'm interested to see what the dial and Illicit upgrades are.

It depends on the dial, but I expect the PS1 Star Viper to cost 23-24pts. Statwise, it's the same as a Interceptor with a Hull and Shield Upgrade already included. There is no evade action but a missile slot. The only way to have a Illicit slot is with the title Virago.

One thing to keep in mind regarding the dial is that it has the Segnor Loop 3 maneuver, it must be worth something. So, to keep it in line cost wise, it might have a dial closer to the E-Wing. The Interceptor/A-Wing dial would be on the Scyk (that should also make both ship fly slightly differently). Also, to benefit the most from this maneuver ( a maneuver that no doubt you pay for it), it might be wiser to take a EPT that doesn't leave you stress at the start of the next round or give wingman to another ship close by (the one that will take the damage in your place). Let's just hope the Scum faction have at least one generic that can take a EPT.

I'm not overly sold on Sirissu as a Bodyguard. His ability doesn't work on himself (based on the Howlrunner precedent), so it's basically like saying "Shoot this one first." Ideally, if like to upgrade one of those Z95s to the EPT Generic Scyk and make that the bodyguard. That way, Sirissu still keeps his focus on defense.

I share your feeling on this one. As long as Sirissu tag along, he gives 1 more dice and a defensive reroll to Xivor. Combine that with Xizor ability that can give the first damage or crit to any ship in range 1, you would be stupid to shoot Xizor first when you have the 3 hit point bodyguard without any token (remember that using bodyguard cost you a focus token).

Currently, the best ship to have the Bodyguard EPT is a Firespray with a Recon Specialist: you still have a focus to defend and 10 hit point to get rid of.

Clearly there is a lot of speculation here, but I don't expect to be "8pts" wrong on them. I hope there is a cheap ETP z or M3-A as Serrisu isn't the optimal bodyguard holder.

I'd take an Ewing dial, I expect a bit more from fluff, but I could live with that (and 2 more greens). And clearly this build needs Xizor, without him the tactics and tricks are completely different. I dont expect this load out to last but as a theoretical it has potential.

I'm hoping Xizor+ 2 M3+ 2z's can happen. Sounds like the right balance of pieces.

Why exactly would i want to shoot the virago first ?

Target priority is:

Serissu then Z's, and then Virago. I don't see the virago having some kind of exceptional firepower to make up for it or force me to attack it first. Am i missing something else ?

Recon+body guard Guarding another firespray also sounds like a win.

You want Xizor to last: high PS "interceptor" with double action, S loop, and any other trick is an endgame piece that's hard to beat. The is why I earmarked 8pts to be spent otherwise, the theoretical build is for fun but I think the final build can be powerful.

If Xizor passes the damage off to a buddy, does Gunner notice?

If Xizor passes the damage off to a buddy, does Gunner notice?

Xizor's ability only happens when he's hit, and Gunner's only triggered when the attacker doesn't hit, so there's no interaction.

It's just as if your YT + Gunner hit my Howlrunner with a single [crit] result, but a nearby ship with Draw Their Fire took the damage instead. Your attack hit, so your Gunner is satisfied--that crazy Wookiee doesn't care who takes the damage, as long as someone gets it.

Serissu can't Bodyguard Xizor because, unless my eyes deceive me, it looks like Bodyguard requires the friendly ship you're buffing to have higher PS.

Firespray+Recon+Bodyguard could be pretty limited in what it can protect, unless the PS5 Generic and/or the PS6 Unique (Emon Azzameen?) have an EPT slot.

Why exactly would i want to shoot the virago first ?

Target priority is:

Serissu then Z's, and then Virago. I don't see the virago having some kind of exceptional firepower to make up for it or force me to attack it first. Am i missing something else ?

You're going to prioritize a bunch of 2 dice guns and leave the 3 dice gun (which happens to have pretty high PS and can PTL some combination of TL/Focus/Barrel Roll/Boost) to the end game?

Frankly, I think it's overkill. As long as Xizor has a buddy to pass along hits to, trying to make the whole list defensive is overkill. I'll probably just end up throwing cheap Zs (or a Y Wing if you want a lot of damage absorption) near him and call it a day.

Serissu seems much more valuable in a list where you are trying to make the Scyks offensive (i.e., cannons) and there's less incentive to shoot him first and target the guns. I can see running him with a pair of HLC Heavy Scyks (or perhaps one of the other cannons if cheaper/nifty) as a complement to a 40ish point StarViper.

I totally had Serissu and Xizor's PS swapped. That's good news as long as the othe Syck fighters have epts it shaves even more points and takes away some of the defensive overkill (although you could VI Xizor to PS 9...not a terrible idea).

So that opens up 2 more points and an EPT Syck (probably 2 points less for the next Syck down with an EPT)... So really we could be looking at:

Xizor+ PTL + Virago + sensor Jammer

Named Scyk

No named Scyk

2x Z

With about 5pts remaining.

Ran through a vassal game with these proxied (and projected dials):

Felt like rebel swarm (AABZZ) but all maneuverable and a bit less dangerous but the B has 3 AG and more HP. Using an Ewing dial for Xizor and PTL you could pretty well keep Xizor in range 1 of a buddy or just not getting shot at. I suspect the dial will be better than an Ewing and the s loop is great fun.

It looks to be a nice list, can't wait to see it in action.

I wouldn't necessarily call a sikh middle eastern though, seeing as they're from Punjab. .

Why exactly would i want to shoot the virago first ?

Target priority is:

Serissu then Z's, and then Virago. I don't see the virago having some kind of exceptional firepower to make up for it or force me to attack it first. Am i missing something else ?

You're going to prioritize a bunch of 2 dice guns and leave the 3 dice gun (which happens to have pretty high PS and can PTL some combination of TL/Focus/Barrel Roll/Boost) to the end game?

Depends mostly on the list you are flying, but yep. 4 ships with attack 2, which aren't really hard to take down and one with attack 3, isn't going to get you in any powerful position on end game anyways to take advantadge of the Virago. And specially with Xzizor ability you don't want to shoot at it as long as he has buddies because you will be splitting your damage through the entire miniswarm, and giving him a reroll with 4/5 agility dice, instead of being efficient and killing just the escorts . And the Xzizor actually has PS7, not that high nowadays, whisper is around its price and is very likely to give it a run for its money.

I don't know how you would want to shoot at Xzizor at all, for one 3gun ship which costs like a phantom?

It looks to be a nice list, can't wait to see it in action.

I wouldn't necessarily call a sikh middle eastern though, seeing as they're from Punjab. .

Corrected! That should say "eastern" and if I was being really specific "South Asian" even or just plain Indian.

Why exactly would i want to shoot the virago first ?

Target priority is:

Serissu then Z's, and then Virago. I don't see the virago having some kind of exceptional firepower to make up for it or force me to attack it first. Am i missing something else ?

You're going to prioritize a bunch of 2 dice guns and leave the 3 dice gun (which happens to have pretty high PS and can PTL some combination of TL/Focus/Barrel Roll/Boost) to the end game?

Depends mostly on the list you are flying, but yep. 4 ships with attack 2, which aren't really hard to take down and one with attack 3, isn't going to get you in any powerful position on end game anyways to take advantadge of the Virago. And specially with Xzizor ability you don't want to shoot at it as long as he has buddies because you will be splitting your damage through the entire miniswarm, and giving him a reroll with 4/5 agility dice, instead of being efficient and killing just the escorts . And the Xzizor actually has PS7, not that high nowadays, whisper is around its price and is very likely to give it a run for its money.

I don't know how you would want to shoot at Xzizor at all, for one 3gun ship which costs like a phantom?

I totally had Serissu and Xizor's PS swapped. That's good news as long as the othe Syck fighters have epts it shaves even more points and takes away some of the defensive overkill (although you could VI Xizor to PS 9...not a terrible idea).

Also I would like to add not knowing if you caught this since your initial post, but StarVipers don't have evades for actions, they have boost+BR and Focus+TL

Yah. Going to edit post 1 with all the extras and stuff we talked through. There were some misses, now we'll get into some of the big hits (well, when we get a few more point confirmations).

Updated intial post with fixes to theoretical and baseline build.

Bringing this back around since it was confirmed that we get 12pt Zs, there were a few people asking for starviper ideas, AND I hope that we get a StarViper preview this Friday.

Updated original post with confirmed info and slightly changed build. Hope we get to see the other toys the SV for S&V comes with and soon we can see the new cannons for the Scychs.

Now with Auto Thrusters!

Xizor gets to truly silly defensive levels here and is a great way to protect your points. There is no way he isn't the last ship on your team but will the rest of your team be able to do anything? I bet they can.

Xizor+ PTL + autothrusters

Black Sun Vigo

B.Pirate x3

99pts

Pretty **** efficient. If the Scyk is in the 13-14 range you can drop the Vigo down and buy a Z up or maybe even drop it all together and go with 2 Scyk. We still don't have all the info to totally go for this build.

MJ, how about some silly silly defensive mathwing to hold us over?