So I had my first game on vassal last night against the Outrider. It was a two ship build flown by De Bad Wolf with a Leebo Outrider with HLC turret and predator along with a Chewie Falcon with predator and gunner.

I was flying whisper, rgp, and 3 academies. I killed off chewie after two rounds of shooting only losing my rgp in the process. After that is when things got interesting.

I knew about the range 1 blind spot, so i kept using my acads to go different directions each turn to both block the outrider to lose actions as well as keep in range one of most if not all my ships. I was able to do this for several rounds but unfortunately was rolling poorly with the ships that had shot on him and wasn't doing that much damage.

Eventually he gave up on the game as he was getting frustrated by the traffic jams I kept causing him. Definitely the tactic to do though for any future games I have against hlc outriders.

So this is the game you played:

"Whisper” (32)

Royal Guard Pilot (22)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

90pts! That's a bold move for initiative

Chewbacca + Predator + Gunner (50)

"Leebo" + Predator + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider (49)

99pts.

Leebo with this build out is a very poor example to judge the Outrider/HLC combo. It makes as much sense as having Shadow Squadron Pilot + Advanced Cloaking Device. I would like more details in the match. Is the only ship you lost the RGP? Did you really keep the 4 ships you had left all with in range 1 of Leebo to completely shut off the outrider/HLC for several turns. Was your prediction of his movement that solid that he didn't just hit the gas and fly by you?

Come back with these results when you face a High PS pilot carrying the HLC/Outrider combo like Dash.

So this is the game you played:

"Whisper” (32)

Royal Guard Pilot (22)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

Academy Pilot (12)

90pts! That's a bold move for initiative

Chewbacca + Predator + Gunner (50)

"Leebo" + Predator + Heavy Laser Cannon + Outrider (49)

99pts.

Leebo with this build out is a very poor example to judge the Outrider/HLC combo. It makes as much sense as having Shadow Squadron Pilot + Advanced Cloaking Device. I would like more details in the match. Is the only ship you lost the RGP? Did you really keep the 4 ships you had left all with in range 1 of Leebo to completely shut off the outrider/HLC for several turns. Was your prediction of his movement that solid that he didn't just hit the gas and fly by you?

Come back with these results when you face a High PS pilot carrying the HLC/Outrider combo like Dash.

I get why you might want more information, but it's worth pointing out that the endgame movement order that frustrated the Outrider would have been at least similar if not exact. The academies are going before Leebo and Dash and depending on initiative, Whisper might also have gone after as with Leebo.

Either way, markcsoul was pointing out a tactic (blocking/trapping to prevent action and that extra barrel roll to minimize creation of space) that I think the Outrider with the HLC is going to have to be concerned about and vulnerable to. Though, I do think we'll be seeing a lot of it (as well as a lot of turrets after Wave 5). Heck, one of my Vassal lists includes it.

he probably had the regular upgrades no?

vi acd = 5

ptl = 3

he probably had the regular upgrades no?

vi acd = 5

ptl = 3

And maybe even FCS on Whisper or Hull on RGP.

he probably had the regular upgrades no?

vi acd = 5

ptl = 3

Are those actually optionnal? I thought they came with the standard edition this year.

I get why you might want more information, but it's worth pointing out that the endgame movement order that frustrated the Outrider would have been at least similar if not exact. The academies are going before Leebo and Dash and depending on initiative, Whisper might also have gone after as with Leebo.

Either way, markcsoul was pointing out a tactic (blocking/trapping to prevent action and that extra barrel roll to minimize creation of space) that I think the Outrider with the HLC is going to have to be concerned about and vulnerable to. Though, I do think we'll be seeing a lot of it (as well as a lot of turrets after Wave 5). Heck, one of my Vassal lists includes it.

Sure blocking is viable in that end game scenario even against Dash. The first few turns however with Dash on the field change completely. If the story was I blocked the Leebo denying him actions and was able to slowly pick him apart, Good story well played. Here is the line I find far fetched: "I knew about the range 1 blind spot, so i kept using my acads to go different directions each turn to both block the outrider to lose actions as well as keep in range one of most if not all my ships." He continued to claim to be able to have ships going in different directions while maintaining this tight range one loop. So here we really only have the 3 academy's who can move into a blocking situation. So you would have to have one for the left turns, one for the right turns and one for the forwards. After a maximum of two turns the ships will pass each other and the Leebo having a turret would be fin to have the ties chase him while he moves away and fires back at them. So really long story short.......I just find these claims to be above an expected result. If the poster ever sees me on Vassal I would love to see hie exceptional flying first hand.

Ouch why all the hatred? First of all yes I did have upgrades on my ship I was just doing a quick summary. I had ptl on the rgp, and ACD, VI, and FCS on whisper.

And yes it is possible to keep most of your ships in range 1. A couple times I had one in range 2, but most if not all were in range one otherwise. Ties are easiest because of their 1 turns and barrel roll options. Sometimes I did a turn with them, sometimes straight or a kturn, sometimes a move then a barrel roll. Plus he had to navigate past wherever whisper still was as well.

I'm not saying I'm the best pilot in the world, but that was probably one of my best flown games ever in terms of not letting him ever get loose from the traffic jam.

Doesn't sound like a good build for the Outrider. Leebo can be good but more often than not is actually wasted points or worse a hindrance. I wouldn't take this as more than the single data point that it is

It's not really up to pair with the current Chewbacca builds either. I really don't mean much harm I just find the story really remarkable that the YT-2400 was unable to zip out of there as it has one of the best dials in the game.

Gotta go with Osoroshii on this, I think there might be discrepancies in this game, build being one. Another may be comfort with the build each player is running. I am surprised Predator didn't help offset the action denial in some significant way.

He couldn't use predator most of the time because of the blind spot...he had no shot to use it on. A few times he probably could have landed on a asteroid but since had leebo instead of dash that would have hurt him.

Now I'm not saying I had ALL his movements blocked, but probably at least 90% or more most of the time, so he'd have to get lucky and guess the right one.

As you can see from this screenshot above I made in vassal, yes the outrider has almost every move at it's disposal, but it's large base means a few ships spread out can easily block it at any direction. I randomly rotated and placed my 4 ships to show how all his options are blocked.

Ok, now demonstrate how you pulled it off several turns to the point of making the Leebo player quit.

Look I'm not lying about this or making stuff up, you can ask De Bad Wolf if you really want to.

I'm not gonna waste time trying to recreate from memory every move that took place. Like I explained earlier it was a variety of moves depending on which way the ship was faced and so on. Some did turns, some did straight or kturns, some did banks, and barrel rolls were often used as well. Plus whisper was taking up a spot waiting his turn to move.

Look I'm not lying about this or making stuff up, you can ask De Bad Wolf if you really want to.

I'm not gonna waste time trying to recreate from memory every move that took place. Like I explained earlier it was a variety of moves depending on which way the ship was faced and so on. Some did turns, some did straight or kturns, some did banks, and barrel rolls were often used as well. Plus whisper was taking up a spot waiting his turn to move.

Fair enough, I didn't mean to upset you. Congratulations on you win. The Phantom is a very good ship and is a force to be reckoned with.

Sounds like a great game, also not sure where all the people on the offense are coming from. Well played sir, well played. Looks like a solid but daring tactic against the outrider and the turreted HLC

So here we really only have the 3 academy's who can move into a blocking situation. So you would have to have one for the left turns, one for the right turns and one for the forwards.

You're missing the fact that you also have asteroids, table edges, the threat of the phantom out there somewhere, etc. Setting up blocks for multiple turns in open space is hard. Setting up blocks for multiple turns on a crowded table where there are obvious maneuvers to make and obvious areas you want to avoid is a lot easier. You don't have to cover every possible move, you just park your mobile asteroids in the locations where your opponent has good movement options and don't worry about blocking them from flying into an asteroid or lining up to fly off the table next turn.

So here we really only have the 3 academy's who can move into a blocking situation. So you would have to have one for the left turns, one for the right turns and one for the forwards.

You're missing the fact that you also have asteroids, table edges, the threat of the phantom out there somewhere, etc. Setting up blocks for multiple turns in open space is hard. Setting up blocks for multiple turns on a crowded table where there are obvious maneuvers to make and obvious areas you want to avoid is a lot easier. You don't have to cover every possible move, you just park your mobile asteroids in the locations where your opponent has good movement options and don't worry about blocking them from flying into an asteroid or lining up to fly off the table next turn.

As much as I cringe to have a discussion with you, my original post was just asking for details as I find the results very remarkable. I also point out the Leebo build was more prone to that tactic of blocking. Where Dash you would not be getting the assist from the rocks in the blocking.