Since the Black Crusade line was discontinued despite the very heavy popularity of Chaos as a concept among gamers, and the general trend towards system-compatibility, I'm now curious and simply going to toss a few questions out there:

- Does anyone else want a chaos supplement for the aptitudes system?

- Are there any plans from FFG to make such a supplement?

- What do folks want to see in a book like that?

- How should chaos gods and aptitudes mix, if at all?

I'll reserve my own views on the matter a bit as not to bog down things with my personal opinions (and anyone who really wants to know can just check the house rules forums anyway ).

I don't think a book like that is necessary at all. Black Crusade is already a well fleshed out game, and the alignment system is basically the Chaotic version of Aptitudes.

If you want to play heretics in DH, you just agree among your group to play heretics.

That said, I would really like a Radicals Handbook 2.0

After the Ordo Xenos and Inquisitors Handbook 2.0 of course

Since the Black Crusade line was discontinued...

*record scratch*

Sorry... when did that occur?

BYE

Since the Black Crusade line was discontinued...

*record scratch*

Sorry... when did that occur?

BYE

In the rumour mill, after ToD came out. If it's not, it'd be good to know, though!

Not officially and that would just be burning bridges in case they'd change their mind.

But I have to agree that the chances they'll be releasing anything soon are slim at best, especially since they shoved a lot of non-nurgle stuff into a tome dedicated to Nurgle. I'm pleased with the content nonetheless, but if they were planning on releasing a lot more supplements, imho they'd have kept it more seperate. Like a book for Nurgle and a book for Unaligned or something.

Anyway, let's not derail the original topic here.

Since the Black Crusade line was discontinued...

*record scratch*

Sorry... when did that occur?

BYE

Yeah, at this point I'm just waiting for the announcement of cancelation. It's not like they couldn't have made a good last run and just made a tome of decay, undivided, and then an ascension level book. If it's not that'd be nice, but that means we got a slightly less than good nurgle book for the sake of squeezing in Daemon Princes, and that's not very fair.

I'd much rather see Black Crusade continued or rebooted than see it rolled into Dark Heresy.

For the love of all no more apitudes. I think that Black Crusade works just fine as it is with the alignment rules as its both easy to use and highely thematic to the followers of Chaos.

Aptitudes are why I love DH1..

I'm not sure it's fair to sound the deathknell of Black crusade just yet! One of the secondary purposes of the book was to provide fleshed out antagonists for players of the other games! So, In a way, DH2 may actually provide a fresh lease on life for the BC line! BC has been out for awhile so it's no surprise that it's development has been somewhat slowed. Particularly in light of the other lines and ffg's acquisition of the Star wars licence to print money!

Revitalising the line may be a viable prospect along with DH2, but this would require something along the lines of a multi-system compatable "Chaos in Askellon" splatbook; which might not actually be that bad of an idea, really.

Say:
Section 1: Fluff on Chaos in Askellon, the plans of the various gods and their domains

Section 2: Playing Chaos- New Crunch for Chaos alignment for characters using the aptitudes system (and maybe 1 page with a short list of aptitudes per archtype for all the BC books; seriously, you just need -one- proper, well done conversion page and you have a winner!). Implicitely, and hopefully explicitely, this would allow inquisitorial acolytes to go radical, and maybe fall, once again and then benefit from the BC splatbooks without actually needing to go through a massive conversion, because an alternate alignment system exists already and you can just -keep playing-. Convenience ftw.

Section 3: Artifacts and relics, a heretical armoury, because everyone loves new toys

Section 4: There are already abundant supplements featuring daemons etc. This would be a chance to stat out and detail Askellon-specific chaos cults and adversaries with their own unique spin

Just a rough idea of how one could take your revitilisation suggestion, Radwraith, and make a book that actually does it. Thoughts?

Why are people interested in applying the aptitude system to BC Heretics? It's entirely unecessary! BC "Aptitudes" are based on the heretic's alignment (Or lack thereof!). Imperial characters have aptitudes for representing the ease of learning within a certain demographic setting. They arrive at the same thing but each fits just as well! It's not really THAT massive a conversion to port over a 'fallen' Acolyte.

The rest I think has great potential!

We don't need a new chaos game so soon, Black Crusade is still very young in the overall timeline.

Why are people interested in applying the aptitude system to BC Heretics? It's entirely unecessary! BC "Aptitudes" are based on the heretic's alignment (Or lack thereof!). Imperial characters have aptitudes for representing the ease of learning within a certain demographic setting. They arrive at the same thing but each fits just as well! It's not really THAT massive a conversion to port over a 'fallen' Acolyte.

The rest I think has great potential!

Not really going to argue, just explain my thoughts behind why I popped in that bit as well (I personally enjoyed playing the alignment system for the most part as well!) :

The key issue I see popping up over and over again when people go heretic is really that they don't want to be shoehorned into a faith by the talents they pick, so a few tweaks to make the two systems compatible would be helpful in that regard, or let you play chaos with aptitudes (which is literally all you need to go snag the tomes and ignore the core rulebook entirely), is going to be great for folks who simply prefer the aptitude system over the BC alignment one. If you pay a bit of attention, you can probably make a set of alignment rules that work for BC as well as an optional supplement to its system, and enrich the game further. They're both d100 systems based largely on the same crunch. It shouldn't be that hard. What it does do is open up a two-way street between BC and DH2/OW and offers incentive to peek beyond one system and check out the other.

All DH2 needs if we're doing Chaos is a Radicals Handbook/Disciples of the Dark Gods book. Black Crusade needs to stay as far away as it possibly can.

Why are people interested in applying the aptitude system to BC Heretics? It's entirely unecessary! BC "Aptitudes" are based on the heretic's alignment (Or lack thereof!). Imperial characters have aptitudes for representing the ease of learning within a certain demographic setting. They arrive at the same thing but each fits just as well! It's not really THAT massive a conversion to port over a 'fallen' Acolyte.

The rest I think has great potential!

Not really going to argue, just explain my thoughts behind why I popped in that bit as well (I personally enjoyed playing the alignment system for the most part as well!) :

The key issue I see popping up over and over again when people go heretic is really that they don't want to be shoehorned into a faith by the talents they pick, so a few tweaks to make the two systems compatible would be helpful in that regard, or let you play chaos with aptitudes (which is literally all you need to go snag the tomes and ignore the core rulebook entirely), is going to be great for folks who simply prefer the aptitude system over the BC alignment one. If you pay a bit of attention, you can probably make a set of alignment rules that work for BC as well as an optional supplement to its system, and enrich the game further. They're both d100 systems based largely on the same crunch. It shouldn't be that hard. What it does do is open up a two-way street between BC and DH2/OW and offers incentive to peek beyond one system and check out the other.

One of the things about chaos that I like in the game is it's insidious nature. You are not "shoehorned" into a faith so much as your own actions bring you closer to a given aspect of chaos! It is possible, though costly, to "step back" from a given god simply by paying points for skills that are outside of your current alignment! But if you insist on, for example, buying all the skills necessary for being a raging berserker of Khorne, that's what you will end up being!

Remember, If we are treating the 'Heretic' Archtypes as elite advances, the prereqs would be: Character must have accumulated AT LEAST 7000 xp AND 100 CP. At lesser experience lvls if you attain 100 CP you simply go mad or mutate into a lesser spawn (Per the rules). If you have less than 100 CP you are not really a true Heretic (Yet!).