Nope, just the closest point of the target ship needs to be in arc, and at ranged 2 at the time of the attack. That's all it it takes to trigger the effect.

But this concept of closest point being in arc has no support from the rules. The only place it exists is a single email from a FFG employee.

Implicitly, tactician uses the conditions of the attack to determine if the tactician effect triggers.

But nothing about the turret rules suggests that "in arc" is determined by anything other than some part of the target ship's base being between the arc lines. There is no rule that "in arc" is determined by a line from the closest point.

While I understand that it's not exactly what the card says, it is evidently, exactly what the card means.

I don't buy this argument at all. The card means what the words say. Until FFG makes an official ruling otherwise (and no, an email from a FFG employee isn't official) I don't see any reason to assume that the intent is to do something that directly contradicts the normal rules.

The crux of the issue is the definition if "in arc" and the question of whether or not a ship is "in arc" changes depending on the weapon being fired.

According to Frank's ruling, the falcon can have a ship be in arc for its concussion missiles, but simultaneously have the same ship be not in arc for its primary.

And there you go Sergovan, THAT is what we need clarified by Frank. do the requirements of "in arc" change depending on the weapon being fired?

Wasn't there a similar disagreement about how R7-T1 worked that ended up amounting to "I am gunna believe what I believe it means until FFG releases an updated FAQ that says otherwise?"

Seems like FFG is gunna be the only one to settle this.

I thought Frank settled it months ago, but it seems that's not good enough anymore.

But this concept of closest point being in arc has no support from the rules. The only place it exists is a single email from a FFG employee.

The closest point of the target ship is used for determining range, and obstruction. There's a precedent for using the closest part of the target ship for determining conditional factors.

I grant you that turrets make it somewhat murky, and need to be addressed. We didn't have ships that could target outside of their arc when the initial rules were laid out to us, so it is an extra conditional that wasn't necessary at the time. But you can't just dismiss it out of hand that the rules don't say that by reading them in the most narrow way out of context with the rest of the game.

But nothing about the turret rules suggests that "in arc" is determined by anything other than some part of the target ship's base being between the arc lines. There is no rule that "in arc" is determined by a line from the closest point.

No, but you do use the closest point to determine your target. If you'd like to determine the arc of things you don't target, that's fine, but you can't (usually) do things to ships you don't target, so the target is kind of an important part of the equation. This is just repeating the above.

I don't buy this argument at all. The card means what the words say. Until FFG makes an official ruling otherwise (and no, an email from a FFG employee isn't official) I don't see any reason to assume that the intent is to do something that directly contradicts the normal rules.

There's no problem with skepticism, but it does seem a little silly to refer to one of the games designers as "a FFG employee". It's not like he's an accountant, or the guy that cleans the carpets on the weekend. Some of his previous rules clarification emails make it in to FAQ, so there is a chance that your current interpretation of the rule is not that absolute.

And there you go Sergovan, THAT is what we need clarified by Frank. do the requirements of "in arc" change depending on the weapon being fired?

And, more importantly, why do the requirements change. What rules did FFG have in mind when they made this decision? Because right now there doesn't seem to be anything in the published rules that even hints at this answer. It's like if a FFG employee sent an email response claiming that TIE fighters only roll two green dice on defense.

The closest point of the target ship is used for determining range, and obstruction. There's a precedent for using the closest part of the target ship for determining conditional factors.

Except the conditional factor in this case is "being in arc", and we're told how to determine whether or not a ship is in arc: check if any part of its base is between the arc lines.

But you can't just dismiss it out of hand that the rules don't say that by reading them in the most narrow way out of context with the rest of the game.

It's not just the most narrow way, it's the ONLY way. If you take away that email there's no dispute about this, the rules for determining arc are perfectly clear.

FAQs, Page 2, Turret Primary Weapon:

"When attacking with a turret primary weapon, a ship may target an enemy ship inside or outside its firing arc."

FAQs, Page 15, Tactician:

"Ships attacking with turret weapons must measure from closest point to closest point when determining range."

Using a primary turret weapon, if the closest point to the enemy ship is outside the attacking ship's firing arc, then Tactician will not trigger.

Sigh. You measure from closest point to closest point when determining range. You do not do that when determining arc.

Sigh. You measure from closest point to closest point when determining range. You do not do that when determining arc.

We have a ruling that says otherwise, at least as far as Tactician is concerned, and until we hear differently that is all we can go on. I don't really like it anymore than you do, but what can you do? We're all just arguing in circles here, anyway.

Page 10 of the Rule Book describes measuring firing arc for non-turret weapons.

Page 2 of the FAQs permits turret primary weapons to fire upon ships that are outside the printed firing arc.

There's an important distinction that I don't believe is clearly stated in the rules: Do we actually target the "whole ship" or do we target the "closest point on the ship's base"?

If we target the "whole ship", then we can see the potential for confusion when the "whole ship" overlaps ranges and printed firing arc lines.

If we target the "closest point on the ship's base", there should be no confusion about which range band that point belongs to and whether it is inside the printed firing arc.

I play the game as if we are targetting the "closest point on the ship's base", given that's how we measure range and how we also determine if a shot is obstructed.

It only works at range 2 and within arc, otherwise no, there is no way you can go overkill!

In all seriousness, there are some absurd Tactician + Quad Laser Cannon shenanigans that you can pull with a CR-90....

Ive done that and its fun. I can still hear the sounds of anguish my mate made when i put 9 stress on his BH and 6 on Howlrunner in 1 turn

Page 10 of the Rule Book describes measuring firing arc for non-turret weapons.

No, it describes checking ALL arcs. You use the same procedure for Backstabber, outmaneuver, etc.

Page 2 of the FAQs permits turret primary weapons to fire upon ships that are outside the printed firing arc.

Yes, and? You can fire outside your arc. That does not change whether or not the ship is within arc.

I play the game as if we are targetting the "closest point on the ship's base", given that's how we measure range and how we also determine if a shot is obstructed.

You might play it that way, but the rules don't tell you to. The fact that you measure point to point for certain things does not mean that you do it in all cases, especially when you have rules that explicitly tell you to check arc using a different method.

Page 10 of the Rule Book describes measuring firing arc for non-turret weapons.

No, it describes checking ALL arcs. You use the same procedure for Backstabber, outmaneuver, etc.

Page 2 of the FAQs permits turret primary weapons to fire upon ships that are outside the printed firing arc.

Yes, and? You can fire outside your arc. That does not change whether or not the ship is within arc.

I read the FAQ, and the inconsistency between the email and the FAQ rules for backstabber/outmaneuver bugged me a bit. I came down a bit more on your side. However, after further reading;

The FAQ for Tactican reads

"Ships attacking with turret weapons must measure from

closest point to closest point when determining range."

Note, it does not say 'within the firing arc'

So it seems the process is

1) Check Arc - if a part of the ship is within the arc of the firing ship, it is within the arc.

2) Check range - Check the range to the target, based on the weapon firing. Closest point to closest point.

They're two separate conditionals, and for better or worse, the range to the target is determined by the weapon that was used to make the attack.

Edit: - That still doesn't make sense for if the closest point being outside the arc, whatever the range.

Okay, I'm sold iPeregrine. The email is pretty inconsistent with the rest of the rules.

Another episode of short and long answers.

Yes - it's not worth it as why stress excessively when you can the points to kill the ship outight.

No - it's not overkill because stressing doesnt actually kill the ship.

I have made up a Rules thread to discuss this topic. Lets move the discussion there and let this thread be more on topic.

Frank sent a response to the rules thread for those who are interested in this topic.