Have just started the Labyrinth of Ruin campaign and the heroes have the Sun Stone

The player that holds the stone is a Beastmaster.

He is adamant that the sun stone gives his Wolf familiar an additional green dice to its attack dice pool.

His rationale is the wording on the card says that the dice is added to "your" attack pool and your attack pool includes the attack pool of the familiar as it is part of his character.

This seems like an overextension of the word "your" to me.

Thoughts?

Have just started the Labyrinth of Ruin campaign and the heroes have the Sun Stone

The player that holds the stone is a Beastmaster.

He is adamant that the sun stone gives his Wolf familiar an additional green dice to its attack dice pool.

His rationale is the wording on the card says that the dice is added to "your" attack pool and your attack pool includes the attack pool of the familiar as it is part of his character.

This seems like an overextension of the word "your" to me.

Thoughts?

You are correct. "Your attack pool" refers to the hero that is equipping the item, not the player's familiar. Familiars cannot equip items. The familiar has its own distinct attack pool.

By that logic, if the player were controlling more than one hero, one could extend "your" to give all of the heroes under the same player's control the bonus green die as well. Absurd.

Agreed. The wolf's dice pools are distinct from the beastmaster's. If you need evidence to convince your player of this, note:

1) The wolf's attack and defense pool are listed on its familiar card. Note that the wolf has his own surge abilities, his attack is not affected by what the beastmaster has equipped as a weapon.

2) There are various skills in the beastmaster deck that grant extra dice under certain conditions (Survivalist, Feral Frenzy, Savagery, Shadow Hunter, etc.) These cards specify the bonuses granted to heroes near you or your wolf, or just your wolf, or just you, or just you and your wolf. It should be obvious that the familiar has its own dice pool.

3) You could point to the Necromancer class and the reanimate, they work the same way.

Note that the Geomancer class and summoned stones function a little differently. The stones have their own defense pool, but use one of the Geomancer's equipped weapons (and therefore the dice and surge abilities of that weapon) to attack. This is written on the stone's familiar card, and the other giveaway is that there is a defense pool printed on the summoned stone card, but not an attack pool.

Hi all, I'm the Beastmaster in question

The specific section of the rulebook we were referencing was the following:

This states that the player, not the figure, creates the attack pool. Therefore, my reading was that bonuses to your attack pool that apply to "you" likewise apply to the player, not the figure.

However, reading cards like you mention above, which explicitly define "you and your wolf", I'm inclined to agree that "you" really should be read as explicitly "the hero equipping this item", not "the player who has this item". So, barring other discussion, I'm happy to concede the point

Follow-up question though: according to the rules, the Wolf counts as a hero for the purposes of being affected by hero abilities. So, for the card Savagery:

Each time a hero performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to your wolf, he may add 1 additional green die to his attack pool. Each time your wolf performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to a hero figure, your wolf may add 1 green power die to his attack pool.

the Wolf would gain 1 green die from the first clause, because it is a hero performing an attack that targets a monster adjacent to the Wolf? And then an additional 1 green die from the second clause, because the wolf is attacking a monster adjacent to a hero? That seems pretty strong, but also seems correct according to the rules?

Anyway, thanks for the input!

Hi all, I'm the Beastmaster in question

The specific section of the rulebook we were referencing was the following:

2. Roll Dice

The attacking player creates his attack pool by gathering all the dice listed on his equipped weapon or Monster card, and then rolls them for

his attack roll. If an ability allows a player to add dice to this pool, he must do so before the roll.

This states that the player, not the figure, creates the attack pool. Therefore, my reading was that bonuses to your attack pool that apply to "you" likewise apply to the player, not the figure.

However, reading cards like you mention above, which explicitly define "you and your wolf", I'm inclined to agree that "you" really should be read as explicitly "the hero equipping this item", not "the player who has this item". So, barring other discussion, I'm happy to concede the point

Follow-up question though: according to the rules, the Wolf counts as a hero for the purposes of being affected by hero abilities. So, for the card Savagery:

Each time a hero performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to your wolf, he may add 1 additional green die to his attack pool. Each time your wolf performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to a hero figure, your wolf may add 1 green power die to his attack pool.

the Wolf would gain 1 green die from the first clause, because it is a hero performing an attack that targets a monster adjacent to the Wolf? And then an additional 1 green die from the second clause, because the wolf is attacking a monster adjacent to a hero? That seems pretty strong, but also seems correct according to the rules?

Anyway, thanks for the input!

RAW, you're right. As far as hero abilities are concerned, "a hero" includes "the wolf." Therefore, if there were a monster adjacent to both the wolf and a hero figure, I think the wolf would get 2 green dice as a bonus. However, I think it's worth submitting that as a question (via the rules link at the bottom of the page) because somehow I suspect that was not the intention.

On a side note, this is the second time in recent memory that there has been rule confusion based on the words "player" vs "hero." I think in the rulebook where they wrote "player" they chose that word because it could apply to the OL as well. That is, "player" means (I believe) "a hero or the Overlord." Win or lose, each player receives 1XP = "Win or lose, each hero and the Overlord receives 1 XP." Yes, the player compiles the attack pool- but he compiles the attack pool of the figure he is declaring the attack with. The wolf doesn't get the beastmaster's dice any more than a minion monster would get its group master's attack dice, or the attack dice of some other monster just because the OL also controls those figures.

RAW, you're right. As far as hero abilities are concerned, "a hero" includes "the wolf." Therefore, if there were a monster adjacent to both the wolf and a hero figure, I think the wolf would get 2 green dice as a bonus. However, I think it's worth submitting that as a question (via the rules link at the bottom of the page) because somehow I suspect that was not the intention.

I believe the intent of his question was that the wolf will always get +2 green dice, no matter how many other heroes are nearby (if any.) The wolf attacks with melee, so it's always adjacent to the monster it's attacking. The wolf is also a hero, so all by itself it fulfills the requirements of both statements.

"Each time a hero [the wolf] performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to your wolf [the wolf is always adjacent to its target] , he may add 1 additional green die to his attack pool. " +1 green die achieved.

"Each time your wolf performs an attack that targets a monster adjacent to a hero figure [the wolf is a hero figure adjacent to the monster it is attacking] , your wolf may add 1 green power die to his attack pool." +2 green dice achieved.

Clearly, the text should have specified "another hero" to exclude the wolf itself from counting as the adjacent hero. It does not, however. To make matters worse, there are other rulings that support the distinction between "any hero" and "any other hero," with the former being inclusive of the activating hero himself, so this interpretation of the card does indeed hold water, RAW.

This is why I don't play the game with rules lawyers. =P

You're right, Steve-o, I missed that. Yeah, that's definitely worth submitting as an official Rules Question , iuchiban.