So, aside from pro rebel drivel, nothing really said I see, cool story. Yes, some of us may actually like the evil empire more then the lame mary sues. who are only more so in this cartoon. At least Han was frozen in carbonite, and luke almost died a few times. They didn't just slide around and sissy slap every storm trooper they came across, and using the events on forest moon to back up why anyone can beat the empire. Well if that was the case then them taking over the galaxy I feel would be quite impossible, and the only fear they would rule by, would be the same fear one would feel with a mentally challenged person running your small business. Ewoks are about the worst things lucas has done to Star wars, next to Gungans.

So you pro rebel fans, carry on loving your mary sue, super silly, goof ball heroes that win by nothing other then laser proof plot armor and slip shod illogical silliness. About the only good thing from the Ep 1-3 was the birth of the empire, notice how Anakin wasn't even remotely likable until he was vader ?..Yeah, killing younglins, it helps.

Why the hell are you complaining about the Imperials looking bad!? They. Are. The. Bad. Guys. And. They. Are. Bad. At. It. Face it! They crash into trees, can't hit worth a **** consistently no matter what weapon they're firing unless they are trying to hit something between the size of a barn-size shield generator or an Alderan size planet. They get beaten by primitive stone age little people. For frick sake they have trouble running through open doorways! Thanks Clerks! You 'effed up Star Wars with your little thought experiment. Ironically the director of clerks recently said he liked the prequels and thank the Force for him.

A'hyuk! Hey guys, let's be fans of the evil empire of space Nazis that blew up entire planets, committed genocide, conquered free independent states, and controlled the populace with fear! *backhand slap* If your so much a fan of the bad guys in movies go watch Twilight and be a fanboy for the vampires.

...Wow I feel better. Good talk son, good talk.

Woah there killer,

I don't think anyone wants the Empire shown to be the great government trying to rule well while terrorists rampage. However I like my villains to be credible. Storm troopers should not be made out to be incompetents. Watch the movies again, the only person who consistently hits what they shoot at is Leia. Everyone else is spray and pray. Red bolts all over. However storm troopers actually do get a nod to accuracy, and they **** sure mopped up Leia's ship even though they attacked blind through a narrow hallway.

I like that there are multiple named villians and, I would like to see more people on the Empire side who fit a moral grey zone. Let there be stories where they lose their blinders and see the horror show that Palpentine creates. That would be cool story telling. I like that the tie pilots helmet came off on that one scene, humanizing him.

Let's all back off the tribalism and conflict.

Why the hell are you complaining about the Imperials looking bad!? They. Are. The. Bad. Guys. And. They. Are. Bad. At. It. Face it! They crash into trees, can't hit worth a **** consistently no matter what weapon they're firing unless they are trying to hit something between the size of a barn-size shield generator or an Alderan size planet. They get beaten by primitive stone age little people. For frick sake they have trouble running through open doorways! Thanks Clerks! You 'effed up Star Wars with your little thought experiment. Ironically the director of clerks recently said he liked the prequels and thank the Force for him.

A'hyuk! Hey guys, let's be fans of the evil empire of space Nazis that blew up entire planets, committed genocide, conquered free independent states, and controlled the populace with fear! *backhand slap* If your so much a fan of the bad guys in movies go watch Twilight and be a fanboy for the vampires.

...Wow I feel better. Good talk son, good talk.

LOL! Did you skip your meds ForceSensitive?

Just because someone is the bad guy does not mean they should be depicted as comical. Storm troopers are supposed to be elite troops not battle droids and regardless of a few scenes in the OT they were treated as such. I am not sure why you chose to take it so personally. I do not know if it is just that you are young or ignorant but the debate about which was actually the better government has been debated for years before clerks.

Anytime you want to try that backhand let me know.

A'hyuk! Hey guys, let's be fans of the evil empire of space Nazis that blew up entire planets, committed genocide, conquered free independent states, and controlled the populace with fear! *backhand slap* If your so much a fan of the bad guys in movies go watch Twilight and be a fanboy for the vampires.

that's not cool man, friends don't let friends watch Twilight

As for those complaining about we should rewatch the original moviews for seeing Stormtroopers

they were numerous, anonymous, and everywhere and they were led by very scary men, but the troops on the ground could barely see out of their helmets because their equipment and their guns were made by the cheapest bidder

So, aside from pro rebel drivel, nothing really said I see, cool story. Yes, some of us may actually like the evil empire more then the lame mary sues. who are only more so in this cartoon. At least Han was frozen in carbonite, and luke almost died a few times. They didn't just slide around and sissy slap every storm trooper they came across, and using the events on forest moon to back up why anyone can beat the empire. Well if that was the case then them taking over the galaxy I feel would be quite impossible, and the only fear they would rule by, would be the same fear one would feel with a mentally challenged person running your small business. Ewoks are about the worst things lucas has done to Star wars, next to Gungans.

So you pro rebel fans, carry on loving your mary sue, super silly, goof ball heroes that win by nothing other then laser proof plot armor and slip shod illogical silliness. About the only good thing from the Ep 1-3 was the birth of the empire, notice how Anakin wasn't even remotely likable until he was vader ?..Yeah, killing younglins, it helps.

Wow, did someone piss in your cornflakes this morning or what?

As for those complaining about we should rewatch the original moviews for seeing Stormtroopers

they were numerous, anonymous, and everywhere and they were led by very scary men, but the troops on the ground could barely see out of their helmets because their equipment and their guns were made by the cheapest bidder

Hey come on now. I heard it from the troopers involved in that last picture that the floor had been freshly waxed and was very slippery. Not their fault that they were sliding around like that.

@Stelar 7 Sadly there are plenty of people who honestly think the Empire were the good guys. Half the play group I'm in for X-wing falls into that category. It is the weirdest thing I've ever seen in the Fandom and lets be real the Star Wars Fandom is full of strange and polarized opinions. I would like to see your proposition for a moral grey zone imperialist too, that sounds cool as hell. Cheers.

@martel I wasn't taking it 'personally' to be fair. Clerks didn't start the debate, it popularized it. And show me three scenes where the Storm Goof Troop could be characterized as 'Elite' from the OT. I can't think of any off the top except maybe the Hoth invasion and even that is iffy. After all their strategy was run at the rebel trenches with dudes and tanks head long. I mean seriously where was their air support to shoot down the snow speeders?

And of course they should be depicted as comical, they're the bad guys. First you make them scary and intimidating and powerful feeling (Check: capture of the Tantive IV) Then you show that they can be deceived (Check: "These aren't the droids your looking for") Then you show that they can be eluded (Check: Death Star Escape) Then you beat the pants off of them (Check: Death Star 1's Destruction) Then you make a mockery of them (Check: Ewoks trump). Now that there is a right proper beat the bad guys step-by-step guide. It's practically the formula.

@ForceSensitive.

Fair enough. Three screens of competence. 1 they crushed the troops defending Leia on the blockade runner. 2 they had mos eisley locked down only force magic saved Luke and company. 3 they found the droids, with only an escape pod and some tracks in the sand they found the Jawas, they found the Lars homestead and they wiped out all of them.

4 yup, the Hoth attack. Even without air support and working under a shield they crushed the rebellion.

5 Endor, true they lost, but only because of heroics on mostly chewie's part. Prior to him getting an ATST the imps were taking casualties, but crushing their opponents. Well that and some improbable combat engineering from the ewoks.

They only time the stormies look bad is when they directly contest the heroes, and they had Han Luke and Chewie flummoxed until Leia saved the day with the garbage chute trick, which also would have just been a delayed death if the rebels didn't have a super hacker droid.

So, this is productive. Good to see a gratuitous/redundant topic isn't going to waste.

Who wants to talk about putting Star Destroyers in X-Wing?

It contained jar jar every episode as a result is tainted.

When will they make a series about the genocide of the gungans, that I'd watch.

You know what's really strange? Did you see the "every generation" trailer that aired in the UK for Phantom Menace? I saw that (it begins with shadowy gungan figures appearing out of the mist on riding beasts) and immediately thought "Yes! A low-tech race that aids the heroes against the droids that aren't silly midget teddybears. This is good." Then Dad came home from a trip to the states with a Captain Tarpals toy, and I was convinced gungans were the next wookiees.

Bascially, I was totally fine with everything Gungan until I watched the film itself. I know Jar Jar is in the trailer twice, but I figured those were just two isolated slapstick moments (after all, Chewie was played for slapstick laughs multiple times in the OT).

But oh was I wrong. So so wrong.

I like it.

I came to this forum to post a link to this review: http://goo.gl/ONHI4h, which is mostly just "yay".

It's weird how much hate Clone Wars gets. To me, it's an amazing return to what Star Wars ought always be: real people in a weird universe, one with laser swords and a Manichean moral tendancy.

If Rebels is more of that, I'm in.

Let me add this video to the mix:

Wait wait wait: this show is destroying the Force Unleashed lore?

It already deserves an award...

@Stelar 7 Sadly there are plenty of people who honestly think the Empire were the good guys. Half the play group I'm in for X-wing falls into that category. It is the weirdest thing I've ever seen in the Fandom and lets be real the Star Wars Fandom is full of strange and polarized opinions. I would like to see your proposition for a moral grey zone imperialist too, that sounds cool as hell. Cheers.

@martel I wasn't taking it 'personally' to be fair. Clerks didn't start the debate, it popularized it. And show me three scenes where the Storm Goof Troop could be characterized as 'Elite' from the OT. I can't think of any off the top except maybe the Hoth invasion and even that is iffy. After all their strategy was run at the rebel trenches with dudes and tanks head long. I mean seriously where was their air support to shoot down the snow speeders?

And of course they should be depicted as comical, they're the bad guys. First you make them scary and intimidating and powerful feeling (Check: capture of the Tantive IV) Then you show that they can be deceived (Check: "These aren't the droids your looking for") Then you show that they can be eluded (Check: Death Star Escape) Then you beat the pants off of them (Check: Death Star 1's Destruction) Then you make a mockery of them (Check: Ewoks trump). Now that there is a right proper beat the bad guys step-by-step guide. It's practically the formula.

I am a fan of the Empire in the movies. They are also completely inept, to a point where even Vader kills them regularly out of frustration. Storm troopers are only scary because there are a lot of them. Any rebel heroes routinely killed small squads without breaking a sweat, often while cracking jokes.

@ForceSensitive.

Fair enough. Three screens of competence. 1 they crushed the troops defending Leia on the blockade runner. 2 they had mos eisley locked down only force magic saved Luke and company. 3 they found the droids, with only an escape pod and some tracks in the sand they found the Jawas, they found the Lars homestead and they wiped out all of them.

4 yup, the Hoth attack. Even without air support and working under a shield they crushed the rebellion.

5 Endor, true they lost, but only because of heroics on mostly chewie's part. Prior to him getting an ATST the imps were taking casualties, but crushing their opponents. Well that and some improbable combat engineering from the ewoks.

They only time the stormies look bad is when they directly contest the heroes, and they had Han Luke and Chewie flummoxed until Leia saved the day with the garbage chute trick, which also would have just been a delayed death if the rebels didn't have a super hacker droid.

1. Killed nameless peons on a diplomatic mission. I'm sure they were crack troops

2. So locked down and scary they Luke flew right up to them without a care in the world

3. They tracked painfully slow moving droids that leave obvious tracks in the sand to a slow moving crawler that leaves tracks in the sand and Luke still had more than a day lead on them.

4. Nearly impenetrable attack walkers have that effect, and it was a skeleton force meant to delay while EVERYBODY even mildly important got away, through an imperial fleet. It went so well Vader murdered an admiral for a job well done.

5. So, one... ONE 7 foot hairball with a bow caster and no magical abilities beat an entire legion of the Emperors BEST troops. This is an argument for competence? Well, they had that one guy, what could we do??

6. Han and Luke so threatened that they could banter back and forth while killing many Storm troopers. Then they could easily see they went down a garbage chute, but didn't bother to send anybody to pick them up. Quality.

just look at them, it's hard not to love em

@ForceSensitive.

Fair enough. Three screens of competence. 1 they crushed the troops defending Leia on the blockade runner. 2 they had mos eisley locked down only force magic saved Luke and company. 3 they found the droids, with only an escape pod and some tracks in the sand they found the Jawas, they found the Lars homestead and they wiped out all of them.

4 yup, the Hoth attack. Even without air support and working under a shield they crushed the rebellion.

5 Endor, true they lost, but only because of heroics on mostly chewie's part. Prior to him getting an ATST the imps were taking casualties, but crushing their opponents. Well that and some improbable combat engineering from the ewoks.

They only time the stormies look bad is when they directly contest the heroes, and they had Han Luke and Chewie flummoxed until Leia saved the day with the garbage chute trick, which also would have just been a delayed death if the rebels didn't have a super hacker droid.

1. Killed nameless peons on a diplomatic mission. I'm sure they were crack troops

2. So locked down and scary they Luke flew right up to them without a care in the world

3. They tracked painfully slow moving droids that leave obvious tracks in the sand to a slow moving crawler that leaves tracks in the sand and Luke still had more than a day lead on them.

4. Nearly impenetrable attack walkers have that effect, and it was a skeleton force meant to delay while EVERYBODY even mildly important got away, through an imperial fleet. It went so well Vader murdered an admiral for a job well done.

5. So, one... ONE 7 foot hairball with a bow caster and no magical abilities beat an entire legion of the Emperors BEST troops. This is an argument for competence? Well, they had that one guy, what could we do??

6. Han and Luke so threatened that they could banter back and forth while killing many Storm troopers. Then they could easily see they went down a garbage chute, but didn't bother to send anybody to pick them up. Quality.

1. Yes, the guards of royalty are usually (always) crack troops: The Pottsdam Giants (Prussia), the Coldstream Guards (UK), The Lifeguard (Sweden), The Swiss Guard (France/Vatican)...etc.

2. He couldn't get into Mos Eisley, a labyrinthine mafia city, without passing a checkpoint. And have you heard of subterfuge? Did you want him to nervously stammer and sweat when trying to pass the stormtroopers?

3. One light breeze and tracks are gone. There are multiple sandcrawlers in the area. They stopped at multiple farms to sell droids. Also, what possible leads would they have had once they tracked them to the Lars Homestead? Luke just went off "looking for droids", and was found by Obi Wan, and then went back home, finding it deserted. The storm troopers had no idea where Luke was.

4. You forget, the Emperor's plan was to force the entire Rebel Alliance into adopting a fleet-based model for their command so he could ambush and destroy them at Endor. Why did Vader kill the admiral? He's a Sith Lord. He's evil. He's also consumed with rage and hate, whereas the Imperial Officer Corps are just coldly following orders.

5. Hubris can do that. 100,000 British troops surrendered the most heavily fortified fortress in the world to 30,000 Japanese troops with no heavy support. A dozen soviet troops held off hundreds of battle-hardened nazi troops with tank support. A single Viking held Stamford Bridge and cut down Saxon Huscarls like they were kittens for almost an hour. Alvin Yorke single handedly captured over 100 Germans. Besides, it looks like there were only 4 AT-ST's: One was tripped by logs, One was smashed by logs, one was destroyed by Chewie, one was captured by Chewie. Since an AT-ST is pretty much invincible against blaster fire, it's not surprising the Stormtroopers lost pretty quickly.

6. Why would they go in after them!? They knew they could just crush them...

I came to this forum to post a link to this review: http://goo.gl/ONHI4h, which is mostly just "yay".

It's weird how much hate Clone Wars gets. To me, it's an amazing return to what Star Wars ought always be: real people in a weird universe, one with laser swords and a Manichean moral tendancy.

If Rebels is more of that, I'm in.

Let me add this video to the mix:

Wait wait wait: this show is destroying the Force Unleashed lore?

It already deserves an award...

Loved the original, despised the sequel. So I can't disagree.

(God that sequel was such piss.)

Just look at the charity work the 501st do, Vader and the lads improving the galaxy do you see any rebels out there doing the same? Course not.

There's always a few bad apples but the Empire is bringing peace all the rebels are doing is committing acts of terror and working to make the galaxy safer for criminals.

I suppose the tie pilots should all have a pilot skill of one and no cool abilities.

After binging on every episode of the Clone Wars and hearing the video updates from the showrunner of both Clone Wars and Rebels, Dave Filoni, this show is going to be a Bantha-truckload of fun.

It's time to wash away the horrible-ness of the prequels and bring back the swashbuckling, kick-azzing of the original trilogy.

The show is going to be great. The ships are going to be cool. And we've already been told we're going to get a ship or more from the miniatures game.

Here's to a great run for Sabine, Chopper, Ezra, Kana, Hera and Zeb.

Having met pretty much all the voice actors from the show, exception being FPJr, the show is in great hands. Every single one of the actors showed enthusiasm for being on the show. They all said the same thing, they wanted to hearken back to the original trilogy. I too am looking forward to it, and I hope it succeeds.

1. That may be true, but te ones in that ship couldn't hit a door sized hole. They were garbage.

2. You assume he couldn't get in without passing a check point. You have no evidence if this. Considering how easy it was to get to a ship and get out. It seems more likely that it wasn't worth the effort to avoid the troopers to begin with. They are, after all, "simple minded".

3. They knew where the pod landed. They should have been there within an hour or two tops. They also have star craft and could easily cover a search area of wide open desert for bright, shiny droids, yet they were a day behind. They could have killed every farmstead the crawler came across. Even inept troops can kill farmers.

4. Yes, letting the leaders of the rebellion escape with ease instead of killing them when you have a golden opportunity is a brilliant plan. Your drawing a bullseye around an arrow that clearly went wide. Vader killed admirals for making stupid decisions. He even explained his reasons.

5. Your examples are horrible. Singapore was hardly the best defended fortress in the world, and the Japanese had armor and air support. The Geemans killed 15 Russians for every German lost and mostly lost due to sheer numbers. Who cares about a Viking in an era before guns. You are right that AT-ST's are pretty indestructible in that case, so why would they open the hatch in the first place? Incompetence.

6. Verification? You're right, we commend Bond villains all the time for waiting for slow moving machines to kill Bond and not making sure he's dead.

The fan boy is strong in these ones.

Alright, you ever heard of plot armor ? The rebels have it, the bad guys have to make these mistakes that let the good guys win, its how its written, using it to explain they are incompetent goofs is silly, bordering on special needs.

1) The rebel royal guards should have been experienced vets. It was said by 3po, how they'd seen a lot of action, and it was a wonder they were still in one piece. They'd been stationed on that ship for awhile, had no memory of the past at least for 3po, which leads one to believe they'd seen a lot of fights and battles, so those guards should have been crack troops, not wimps. The ease at which they are taken down, is a sign of the Storm Troopers actual worth, as they sieged them with minimal casualties in return. If they went down too quick, call that poor writing, but then in some aspects Star Wars isn't overly deep in plot development and realism, its a space opera.

2) It isn't shown one way or the other that the ST's have the whole space port locked down, its assumed they did. As well Luke had no clue what Obi Wan was going to do. As well, the team weak mind, or simple minded could have a lot of lee way in it. To a highly trained jedi, many could be considered weak minded, and some races are just seemingly immune to such out of hand it seems, some very vulnerable to such. Using that as a reason they are stupid, is in itself, stupid.

3) There is no time reference for how long it took the ship in orbit to put two and two together that the plans might have been on the planet, it isn't said how long it takes to find leia, talk to her, assemble the team, send them down. Remember, there was no life signs so quite possibly the ship wasn't even tracked all the way to landing. Let alone I always wonder how R2 ever got anywhere, with sand that deep he'd have simply sunk in place and moved no where with his little wheel legs, yet somehow he didn't, and that is their plot armor again, as well a couple hours would have been plenty of time to cover most of those tracks, wind blows pretty fast and hard over such wide open expanses, so the fact they found them at all, is great for them.

Which may go more to their commander judging Jawas are junk men of the planet so to check with them out of hand, as opposed to tracking them. Which could imply some smarts, but that can neither be proved or denied.

4) There was no way of knowing that echo base was the whole of the rebellion leadership, there would be some there, but most likely not all, like notice Ackbar wasn't there, neither was Mon Mothma and surely other higher ups in the rebellion, it was but one outpost of many the rebels held. As for the matter of air support, that is probably more a matter of limitations of the time with special effects. However, for air support from the ISD's in orbit, remember they had the shield generator up which was strong enough to stop any orbital strikes, they knew this and couldn't take out the ground forces with air power before the ground troops went in, that's why Veers went in for ground assault.

As well, did actually do his task perfectly, blow up the power generator and once they did the other landing craft were landing. The Imperial fleet didn't stop all the rebels because of the Ion cannon, however unless they mentioned it and I forgot If so. They didn't pick up the ion cannon because of the energy shield. The admiral, as Vader said was clumsy and stupid, and he died for it. There were proper protocols for such, and he didn't follow them, favoring an approach he thought was more, direct. It happens.

5) The entire Malaysian campaign for Japan was under taken with very skilled leadership on their end. They did a lot, with a very little force present. They went in with little ammo and armor support, attacking from unexpected angles. England had superior troops in terms of numbers, but worse morale, for all the unexpected attacks and tactics japan used. As well they just brought in fresh troops from Anzac and india but didn't give them enough time to acclimate so they suffered from heat exhaustion, etc from the tropical climate they weren't used to. There was a lot of different reasons why Singapore turned out poor for the UK, some of it was hubris however.

They opened the top of the At St for no other reason then plot armor to help the rebels win, that's all.

6) Lucas had to make the good guys win, end of story. So he add to write some poor ideas to let them do so. As such an incompetent empire would have never ruled the whole galaxy, ever if they acted as they were shown to. So yay good guys always win right ?

Plot armor. Main characters can beat nameless troops at will.

Thank you for proving my point.

Yes, so incompetence doesn't come into it when there is death star sizes of plot armor.