This is continuation of discussion and review started in ALIGNMENT CARD: Neutral related to developing a common card back for all alignment cards... should anyone card to have Alignment cards that are only one sided. I'll repost two versions here, as we left on wondering whether the card back should be a landscape design (like Alignment card fronts), or a portriat design (like card backs for other decks in the game).

All graphics are in full 300dpi but display reduced; right-click and save or select "View Image" to see enlargement. The triple icon design and art so far is in "sketch" stage and should not be considered to represent final art.

Taking off from Jon New's suggestion to try landscape design, one concern was having to reduce the triple icon pattern to 60% to make it fit at the cards center. In the 2nd example (landscape), I shifted the whole pattern off center with out resizing to make it fit inside the frame. Not sure I care for that. But it's a trade to avoid lost of detail in a finished art when reduced.

Some rework of shadowing would also be necessary for landscape. Alignment cards use a 0 degree light source for shadowing, while portrait found on other card backs is a 45 degree left light source (well, most elements in the backs are, but not the corner talismans). And yes, the shadowing in the landscape version is a good and should be in the other direction.

HI JC!

I think the landscape suggestion I made isn't really necessary. I was probably thinking in terms of the look of the cards, but in keeping with all of the others I think portrait is fine. I would think it might be nicer having the Neutral part of the logo pointing upwards though.

Hmm... upwards eh? Okay... I didn't want to do it myself, as my creation, thinking that would look too arrogant. Up it is, and I'll go back to portrait layout. Now have to think of how to flesh out that back in keeping with the other standard card backs.... and something in place of those garrish colors. Possibly going to one basic color over the whole back, like on some of the stnadard backs. If something occurs to you, please note it herein.

Another plus point for the Neutral icon being uppermost is that the icon "reads" nicely clockwise from Good, through Neutral to Evil.

As for the base colour, I am quite taken with the grey as it stands now. Just a few bits and bats to bring it into line with the other cards should do it, or even leave it plain...

Not sure the central image is large enough to be meaningful though. Perhaps it can be expanded to the limits of the second curve so the icons jut out from it?

Got it. The central image "star field" was just me dinking around and I forgot to turn it off before rendering. No sure it really works. And I'm going to try to study some of the other standard card backs... try to come with something similar in make. If there are elements, pieces, etc. there that might inspired some notions, let me know. I'll keep toying with some things as well. I'm thinking almost that the icon cycle should be renderer in one common color to match a more single tone motif, but will wait until something more is built for the rest of the back to flesh it out.

All right... a few steps forward... maybe some steps sideways. It's not really in the same vein as standard card backs, which is probably where it should go. But, there it is. As usual, right-click and select View Image for enlarge. Suggestions are welcome.

It's getting there.

The outer rim of the wheel with the runes on is not centered properly, I was staring at it and thinking it was not round

but I think it is just alignment. The gap at the bottom is too narrow.

The runes are interesting, do they have a real message ? That would be pretty neat to have a real meaning. The look like

they are obscured though so maybe if you do that restrict to just the visible areas unless you want to include a real riddle

where you don't even get the whole message..

Part of me thing the central gem needs some detail and the other half things plain is better.

Great work yet again. Oh - and I just got the fact that the totally random flame for Evil is actually from the Talisman, presumably as is also the triangular shape for Good. Perhaps the neutral icon should have been a hand....

Hey Bantha, you're right now that I look at it carefully; the rune hoop needs to move down a notch. Don't know about the runes, as its just a copy of the same hoop off another card back. It's there just for the heck of it right now, as I'll be replacing that with something similar of original design.

The center isn't a gem; its just the densest part of the background nebula... so maybe I'll need to mute it or accent it more.

The icon of Neutral (Balance) was picked by votes in another forum topic herein a while back. You can look HERE to see that final card coming in In the Balance Part 3.

Great work JC! I'm loving this development process!

I'm liking the change to gold for the icon and it gets us away from that "non-standard" thing we were discussing and makes it look so much classier!

Not sure about the Runes at all. It makes it look a little busy around the centre. I like the stone base very much, perhaps any fancy things can complement its shape.

The nebula is giving me horrible flashbacks to the Timescape...

I think it might be nice to have some sort of central "gem" though, but even that might be too much...

talismanisland said:

Okay, noted. Maybe some echo of the three around one circles, though that might also become busy. I'll see how my time is tomorrow, maybe have a couple of different notions put up by Wednesday.

talismanisland said:

The nebula is giving me horrible flashbacks to the Timescape...

Oh no ... no, no, no. That thing was my most hated expansion ever! I'll think of something else for the background... though not sure that a stone center piece on a stone background would work.

talismanisland said:

Maybe something more pearlish... crystal ball-like... with just the shadowed hint of a "talisman" inside of it? Not sure I can do that with such a small area... but the notion suddenly came up.

That background also reminds me of timescape...

I think we need something else...

But the card looks very good.. that's for sure But not for a alligment card....

Haven't had much time for experiments, but here are some things to consider. These are all at half resolution to save load time.

The first three show the central emblem with slightly different approachs to beveling against a a matching texture background. Also added more work to the central opal, though still need to refine the talisman sandwiched layer. A bit of enlargement of the center opening. The alignment icons had increased shadow detail as well as depression shadowing in their under-disks.

The next three mix some of the above subtle effects with a background pattern I'm experimenting with (though it is far from complete). I'm vector silhoutting an ancient Persian astrolabe as a base. It may need to be simplified in the end, but the standard background above is too plain when laid up against other card backs. Possibly a few scattered gems, tiny gold highlights, burned in mystical symbols, etc. might be added depending on how the the base pattern finishes up.

Comment are welcome, as always.

WOW! Those are tremendous JC!

For my money I think number 5 is the winner here.

It goes so well with the background stone texture you have chosen as it looks like someone has taken to time to carve out the intricate design into the stone, polished the inside of the "tracks" and then inlaid the sacred designs in gold!

Call me totally insane (well...) and I might add that they have even added a polished piece of pink marble that was found to contain an image of the sacred Talisman... (a bit like the "Nun Bun" - Google it.)

My only concern is that the central icon may be slightly too large as its surround sits very close to the braids at each side and could possibly do with being reduced, though this of course will impact the clarity. Does it even need the surround I wonder as it has the wonderful design behind it?

But, that said... AWESOME!

talismanisland said:

Could you explain what you mean by polish? Should I reduce the texturing in the astrolabe's arcs and struts (the areas between the pillow emboss edges)?

talismanisland said:

Same thought here.

talismanisland said:

You mean the stone backing originally behind the gold icons complex, right? I'd wondered about that myself.

I'd also wondered about breaking off the individual alignment icons, encircling each with gold trim, then embedding them as parts of the astrolabe design at their current size. HOWEVER, most standard card back have centralized icons for their idenities.

I mean the "raised" parts of the design. In my mind they are like trackways with ditches to the side. They are darker (and shinier) and look to have been polished. I meant it was a nice thing

As for the central icon, I'd leave it as it is but possibly remove the stone base for it to reduce its "apparent" size a little.

Okay, much clearer now! I should've seen what you meant the first time. More examples coming in a day or so, as I'm buried in some writing. BUT... here's what we end up with by removing the stone from beneath the icon triad.

Hmm... without the base it doesn't look look at all...

I wonder how it would look if the "triad" base was adjusted to follow the outline of the icon itself, rather than having circles surrounding them.

And a bit more to it... this time at full resolution (right-click >> view image). And I'll add another variation (which would still need some extra work on the opal/pearls spread around to blend them better).

The drop shadow has made a huge difference to the icon. It no longer looks like it is just "sitting" there...

On a personal note, I prefer the idea of the flatter card back due to the reasons outlined previously.

However, with that said, out of the two examples here I prefer the raised version. Not only does it follow the formula from the other cards being raised, but it is "shinier", classier and more professional looking.

I'm right in sync with you, Jon. I do like the uniqueness of the first back, but you're right... the second with the raised and shadowed pattern fits better with standard backs. I'm going to proceed with some touch up on the opals and how they meld with the astrolabe pattern, and we'll see how it turns out.

Okay, I've deleted all other back examples to stop wasting bandwith on my domain, and here is what I have. I decided not to add any glitz or additional layered elements to the background as seen on other standard card backs... at least not unless others think it needs more. So especially to you, Jon, if you agree this is good enough, you now have an alignment card back to add to the Talisman plugin for SE... if you wish. Simply right click and save.

NOTE: If you're seeing and old card (since I load this one over previous image with the same name) do a forced refresh (in most browsers, hold done the CTRL key or equivalent Mac as you click refresh).