Sure you don't NEED them, but what if you'd LIKE to have them anyway. Star Wars means many things to many people. For me, the Jedi are what make Star Wars not just another generic Sci-Fi film(s). For one of my friends, its the ships and he doesn't give a crap about Jedi.

For some, not using any movie characters in their game is the way to go. For others, they'd like to use them, and for others-again they'd like to face them in combat.

Also, letting the devs concentrate on what "most people" want... how do we know what most people want. These forums are just a small minority of players as is any RPG forum. Even if we did a poll to see what the players want we'd not have an accurate depiction of the answer. Not every player comes on the forum. Not every forumite will vote.

I personally hate adventure books. Hate them! But does that mean the writers shouldn't have released them? Does that mean I feel they shouldn't have wasted their time when they could have been doing something I wanted. Of course not! Because I recognise that there are people out there who DO like them.

****, there are some selfish people on these forums...

I understand their point of view too Space Monkey. Why 6 or 7 pages with iconic characters instead new talents or signature abilities or awesome new equipment?

It's just a "priority thing".

In my 13-14 yeard old main game sessions, I used diverse iconic (canon and non-canon) characters. Even sometimes I remember posts from WotC about creating non-SW characters that where cool. Love that post

During all this years I used iconic chars as "Guest Stars" like in TV shows where everyone screams when they appear XD

Some of them like Morgan Katarn (Kyle's father) I used him as recurrent NPC.

Not every time an iconic character appears I need his/her stats, just because my player use to talk or discuss with them. The only one until the moment that I needed the stats (because my player fought them) are: Bobba Fett, Sariss (Jedi Knight Series), Cronal (Black Hole) and Darth Vader (From Star Wars Universe XD).

He confronted Bobba Fett when he was "low level" to satisfy Jabba to ask him for a favor (Jabba sleept during the duel and told him to don't annoy him more and make something more funny like a swoop race XD). Due to a familiar link my player meet Jerec and almost become his aprentice, Sariss hate him a lot due to secret interests about his grandfather. My player killed Cronal because...long story, is a bad guy XD. And actually he recently fought Vader discovering himself as a Jedi (until the moment for Vader he only was a Force Sensitive Bounty Hunter that he used to eliminate for him a traitor in the Empire while he is bussy with his new obssession (Luke).

I would love a lot to have that stats. I know that If I create a post here with "Stat X", plenty of awesome ideas will roll out, but the main reason for I ask for developers vision is that they are the best knowing its own creation. This doesn't mean that I don't prefer another one creation than the "official", but I would like to see that.

Also I have to say, that the general sensation is that people makes hard to respect (not always) other point of view.

- If someone asks for Vader is stats in a post... "Why you want that? This is/Your are so stupid".

- If someone asks for, please, no stats on Edge... "Why you want that? This is/Your are so stupid"

In BOTH fields, please, respect.

[in the video Jim Carrey sings with a guitar to save someone who wants to jump from a ledge. After a few moments the crowd down there also sings and after that the man outside too. When he aproaches to him Jim grabs the man saving him].

Sorry, I love that scene but the Ducatti Scene was also awesome XD

I would rather not have pages in a book used to do that statting unless it is needed. there is a lot more useful information they can provide in a book.

*sigh* ok, I'm done.

Why do you need their stats to use them? Why do you need their stats at all?

Because I'd find them very useful. Why don't you want them? Because you wouldn't find them useful. Why can't people just accept that people want different things for different reasons? If they release a stat book you don't want, don't buy it. Where's the harm?

The harm is in providing stats means we have to give up something that will likely be more universally useful. Anybody can crank out stats for Vader. Not anybody can crank out another talent tree or a piece of equipment that would be useful to everyone. I would rather have another starship, piece of equipment, talent tree, planet, fluff about the rebellion, etc. Than have a stat block for a character that likely won't be used by most people. Even the people that pull the character into their game. That is the problem. the stat block even when it exists is not actually of much use even in the campaigns of people who use them. How often are the PCs going to fight Luke Skywalker? How often is Luke Skywalker going to be making rolls? What is he going to make rolls for? Lore checks? why is the GM making an NPC make a skill roll? To give information to the party? Can't the GM just decide if he wants the party to have that info? Can't the GM decide what an appropriate skill level for the NPC is?

that is the harm. In order to get the stat block we have to give up something else. And unless that stat block is being used. Like for example Jewel of Yavin. It is taking up space for something else. That will likely be of a far more universal appeal.

I think that FFG will not shy away from statting known characters if they need them in an adventure. For example i can see them statting Luke as Rogue Squadron Commander if you need to interact with him in a future Age adventure, but i relly think they will not waste space for statting people at random, and we will not get a book with all the famous people stats.

I don't think we wil ever see Darth Vader or the Emperor stats either, as they are Imperial, and also no Obi-Wan (he's dead in the timeline) or Yoda (he's hiding and nobody knows where he his).

In any case i think some of you are too dependent on stats: if the players aren't meant o interact more than taking with the iconic character there's no need ofr stats, if you are meant to interact more with him just make up their stats as you need them, so you can focus on what you actually need (are you duelling Darth Vader? what do you care about his piloting skill. Are you dogfighting him? No need to know what his lightsaber skill is). As Lando stats show, all iconic charcters have completed multiple career so you would need to focus on something anyway.

Last thing: as the thread Building Luke Skywalker shows, working together to stat the iconic charcters can be a fun exercise, that also gives us betetr insight in how the system works. So YOu want to see Darth Vader's stats? Open a thread and build him!

If you want all that stuff then make it yourself. That answer seems to be good enough for you to give me. " Not everyone can make stats for ships/equipment/talent trees"? People are just as capable of doing that as they are at writing official sounding stats.

If you want all that stuff then make it yourself. That answer seems to be good enough for you to give me. " Not everyone can make stats for ships/equipment/talent trees"? People are just as capable of doing that as they are at writing official sounding stats.

Yes we are capable of making what we need. Difference is how many people will benefit from new equipment? Most players will. How many people will benefit from stats for Darth Vader? a few GMs.

Which will sell more books? the Stats a few GMs will use or Stuff most players or most GMs will use?

Money says the more universally used item will make more money.

That is the problem. Even in this thread there are only a couple of you clamoring for the stats while most people are saying we don't need or want them.

Fine. You're right. I'm wrong. End of.

Jesus Christ...

If you want all that stuff then make it yourself. That answer seems to be good enough for you to give me. " Not everyone can make stats for ships/equipment/talent trees"? People are just as capable of doing that as they are at writing official sounding stats.

I'm in the "don't wast time on Vader" camp and here is why, now you try and turn the argument and say "well isn't it the same thing", but it's not and I'll try and explain. Developers have a better understanding of the balance of the game, they know how it work and they understand the scaling better than we do it literally being their job so when they design a mechanic we can at least assume that they have put in the 10000 hours that it takes at getting good at something into designing game mechanics, it's the same as comparing a kids fridge drawing to the cover of last months spider-woman (ok, that was an odd joke I know). By the time you're 6 you've probably spent more time drawing than you will your whole life doing mechanics.

Lastly most of us run games based on stories we come up with, I've only once run a successful game based on a campaign that I bought in a store. I GM to tell stories, not to read from someone else's book and then referee some dice rolls and I think that's the most common way of doing things, but then again this is how my groups used to do things so I of course think that, I may be wrong.

Well that's just it. I don't get the need to compare my character to anything in the media. It's not a contest, what's the point? What matters is the context of the story they're in, not "Oooo, I'm a better pilot than Han Solo, somebody grab me a sock!"

And second, I can guarantee my players will never run into the iconic characters.

Some people's vision of the SW galaxy feels way too small.

It's not a competition, it's more of a desire to be these figures that we have admired for many years in a franchise that has made our childhoods what they were. I most of all desire to have a character that could be one of those iconic figures, not compete but become.

. I most of all desire to have a character that could be one of those iconic figures, not compete but become.

And you can be. In fact, you're supposed to be. The focus of other Star Wars games was the movie characters, who appeared frequently and had long stat blocks. This game is supposed to be about the PCs.

In terms of 'power', by the time you have completed 3 specialisations, you're pretty much on par with the movie heroes, if that matters.

If you want stats for Han Solo, Boba Fett, or Vader, they are easy to extrapolate from the generic ones in the EoE book. Take the experienced Bounty Hunter stats, add some armour and a jet pack, and there you go.

People who want entire books of stats are going to be disappointed. For better or worse, FFG have decided they are not going to try to do 'complete profiles' of famous characters and only stat whatever is needed for their appearance. Which makes sense to me.

The last thing this game needs is overpowered stats for GMPCs like Elminster or Drizzle.

Another reason why WotC and WEG design stats is maybe so ppl can BE luke skywalker or obi wan to act out the famous adventures and scenarios this is just a **** game it's meant to be fun and entertaining the group I'm from a group where sometimes our GM indulges our fantasy and let's us play the iconic characters in an infinites scenario

Another reason why WotC and WEG design stats is maybe so ppl can BE luke skywalker or obi wan to act out the famous adventures and scenarios this is just a **** game it's meant to be fun and entertaining the group I'm from a group where sometimes our GM indulges our fantasy and let's us play the iconic characters in an infinites scenario

I get that some people actually want to do that, but it's not for me. Also wouldn't it then be more fun to stat them yourself? Make them yours. But that is me asking, cus I don't feel that, I have a rich enough inner life that I have a whole mythos surrounding some of my Star Wars games. Which reminds me, I'm going to have to revive an old game now that AoR is out.

Another reason why WotC and WEG design stats is maybe so ppl can BE luke skywalker or obi wan to act out the famous adventures and scenarios this is just a **** game it's meant to be fun and entertaining the group I'm from a group where sometimes our GM indulges our fantasy and let's us play the iconic characters in an infinites scenario

I get that some people actually want to do that, but it's not for me. Also wouldn't it then be more fun to stat them yourself? Make them yours. But that is me asking, cus I don't feel that, I have a rich enough inner life that I have a whole mythos surrounding some of my Star Wars games. Which reminds me, I'm going to have to revive an old game now that AoR is out.

We've already had Lando. We may get others with same caveat. That caveat being that they are statted in relation to the adventure they are in and that it is nothing more than that. Characters in movies tend to have the abilities that allow them to do whatever makes them the character they are. Lando is a gambler/entrepreneur/pilot/can probably shoot with the best of them/can probably fight hand to hand when needed/mechanic and whatever else is needed when the character is doing stuff. Authors and screenwriters tend to apply whatever works for the character. But the character was only statted in relation to the adventure they were in.

No reason to waste energy on statting characters that will probably be ignored by most, and the few that would use them, would probably only do so as plot devices where stats mean nothing.

A better project, now that the F&D beta is out, would be to do a forum project and have people post their versions of iconic characters. Then if people want them they have multiple versions to choose from.

[...]

The last thing this game needs is overpowered stats for GMPCs like Elminster or Drizzle.

Great. This is all I can think of now (perhaps the next villain in my campaign?):

i agree mouthymerc, and that was what was going on in the Let's build Luke Skywalker thread, with people arguing if he was a fringer or a pilot or what.

It would be a fun exercise i think

Well that's just it. I don't get the need to compare my character to anything in the media. It's not a contest, what's the point? What matters is the context of the story they're in, not "Oooo, I'm a better pilot than Han Solo, somebody grab me a sock!"

And second, I can guarantee my players will never run into the iconic characters.

Some people's vision of the SW galaxy feels way too small.

I just explained my point I am gonna call BS bout your "PLAYERS" not meeting iconic characters cause eventually they will ...<snip>

Hilarious. You're actually telling me I HAVE to include iconic characters in my campaign? Just how tiny is your imagination, anyway?

Well that's just it. I don't get the need to compare my character to anything in the media. It's not a contest, what's the point? What matters is the context of the story they're in, not "Oooo, I'm a better pilot than Han Solo, somebody grab me a sock!"

And second, I can guarantee my players will never run into the iconic characters.

Some people's vision of the SW galaxy feels way too small.

It's not a competition, it's more of a desire to be these figures that we have admired for many years in a franchise that has made our childhoods what they were. I most of all desire to have a character that could be one of those iconic figures, not compete but become.

Not my thing. Sure, the movies make those people inspiring, somebody to live up to maybe, but to *be* them...? Seems pretty dull.

I like mouthymerc idea. As I said I loved the WotC post where people created from Batman to... Sailor Moon XD

I still would want a concept version point of view from developers, because as I said I'm more interested in concept than mechanics. I would like to know what value give them to their talents and specs, and where they focus those iconic chars and if they based they ideas on them.

Again, if anyone would want to stat Sailor Moon... would be great XD

And, both sides, why there is always SO MUCH TENSION in almost every post? Keep calm and be geek!

More than 99% of NPC I create are personal creations. More than 80 really important NPC with stats (at least 2 or 3 skills) that had a really strong impact in our main game. My games focus on player story and universe back story from legends, canon and from... anything else can be cool.

I'm pro canon, but I support legends. I'm pro main chars, but I fully support "homemade" ones. Not everything have to be so extremist or oposed.