Actually, I have read the errata. The one-manifestation rule ONLY applies to half-action manifestations. It specifically states that as many free actions can be taken a round as needed/DM discretion. They stated this rule only to stop people from doing two half-round manifestations in one round, which would be doing the same action twice in a round.

I don't need to attack and heal in the same round. The only time I should ever be hit is in this sniper situation. I heal myself, and my other half action I dodge into cover. My next round, I shape flesh quadraped and am then moving REALLY fast at the sniper. I doubt I'll be hit in melee, and I should never be hit while running.

SanderScamper said:

Yeah, you didnt understand the errata then. You cant attack in the same round you use a power, and you can never use two powers in the same turn. And from reading you seem to be saying you are using or sustaining 5 powers a round in combat every turn.

The first paragraph in the Using Psychic Powers section
starting on page 161 should include the addition: “Making
Focus Power Action is the psychic equivalent of a Standard Attack
Action, and counts as such for purposes of determining what
a psyker can do in a round. Therefore, a psyker who uses a
Action power cannot make another Half Action Standard Attack
on the same round. A Psyker may manifest only one ability
Round with the exception of the Resist Possession power. A Psyker
is required to roll at least one die to manifest an ability.”

SanderScamper said:

Various beat me to the errata issue.

However, I would say that your GM made a misstake in making Precognition a bit too powerful for a minor power. It is just a name and should not do much more than the description says it does. And yes, Precognative Dodge is a Free Action, and there are no precise rules on when you're allowed to preform Free Actions, but I don't think that should mean that you're allowed to use powers at any other time than on your own turn in a round (reaction powers being the obvious exceptions since reactions can only be used when it's not your turn), but maybe I'm the only one who thinks that.

I'm usually only sustaining one or two powers. Chameleon, precognition. Sometimes Shape Flesh, but only for a little while (usually it's to fly/run really fast.

Well, I mean, it's certainly your call, but there are talents that allow you to do the same thing (Rapid Reaction I think) that are available quite early for some career paths. My DM is pretty fluff-happy. If we're going to bring Balance into it, that's kinda already out the window, so going by the description of the rule, I think it makes sense.

SanderScamper said:

I don't believe there are any talents that allow one to preform two of the same actions twice. Granted, there are some that allow multiple attacks, but Multiple Attack is not two half actions but a single full action just as running is not two Half Movements but one Full Movement. Oh, and Rapid Reaction lets you test Agl to negate surprise... ;-)

If your aim is to make a broken character, then it has to be done by the rules. else it's not broken as, by the rules, it wouldn't be able to do what made it appear broken in the first place.

SanderScamper said:

Anyone can make a strong character if they dont follow the rules. Then it turns into a game of "nu-uh" and "uh-huh".

Its not our call, its the way the game is. The rule is no more than one power a round, and you cant attack. If you dont feel like following the rules, Im not sure why we need to hear about it. Its the equivalent of bragging about aim botting in counterstrike.

Woah, okay you guys are reacting strongly to this. I wasn't aware of the only one power per round, PERIOD, as this seemed not really congruous with the rest of the rules. I made out to make a character that was definitely within the rules, and if I can only use one power per round, that's fine, it's not actually that too big of a deal.

Basically, all that really means is now my character will ONLY be using Precognitive dodge in melee combat instead of both precog-dodge and precog-strike. He still has an 80+% chance of parry and of hitting in melee. It's most important that he is unable to be hit by Autocannons. Sustaining one or two powers isn't that much of a stretch.

Quote

I don't believe there are any talents that allow one to preform two of the same actions twice. Granted, there are some that allow multiple attacks, but Multiple Attack is not two half actions but a single full action just as running is not two Half Movements but one Full Movement. Oh, and Rapid Reaction lets you test Agl to negate surprise... ;-)

Quote

I wasn't talking about performing the same action twice in a round, I was talking about using a free action, and a half action. Since that's no longer allowed, fine.

Yes, if you go by the letter of the rules in regards to precognition, my character won't see it coming. There is a chance that he will actually be hit. It isn't anything like a certainty that he will be killed. When surprised, are you allowed a dodge action? It doesn't say specifically in DH, and I remember reading that you can dodge any time that you aren't stunned or immobile.

There really isn't anything you guys have pointed out that makes the character much less powerful. A sniper SHOULD be able to completely kill someone, if they have total surprise on them, that's kind of an easy one. However, if he doesn't kill me in the first shot, he is most certainly not going to hit me with a second.

SanderScamper said:

My bad on the two action thing. I misunderstood what you had said.

You are correct, the text for surprised doesn't actually state the character can not dodge or parry, but such seems to be strongly implied. The character losses their turn and "...can do nothing except stand dumbfounded whilst their opponents fall upon them..." That seems to imply that they can't dodge nor parry -that would be doing something other then standing dumbfounded. So, going strictly by the RAW, a snippers bullet (or autocannon blast) would be one of the big chinks in his armour.

SanderScamper said:

No you can't

'Surprise' DH p187

You lose your turn and can do nothing. Opponents get +30 to hit (probably should be errata'd up to +60?).

Okay. So with this in mind, I believe I can rectify this situation with a change of powers. Preternatural Awareness in exchange for Dominate (It's almost completely useless against high ranked players, it's only really fun for playing with enemies. I think having Preternatural Awareness should make me immune to surprise, sounds fair?

Isn't it better that we're having a nice, calm discussion where we're improving on my design instead of treating me like some cheating player? Goddamn =p

SanderScamper said:

Prenatural Awareness doesnt make you immune to suprise either.

If you'll read the fluff, I think it's pretty clear that it should make you immune to surprise. It's almost errata worthy, I can't imagine a DM disagreeing.

SanderScamper said:

If it makes you immune to suprise, what is the point of the bonus to awareness it gives you? I can imagine your DM not disagreeing, but his choices so far have been less then good.

Well, obviously, it allows you to spot people who are hiding, or it's just the ability to see better. The real benefit of this power is giving you much, much better reflexes, because you can see into the future, encountering a bunch of people, you'll get a bonus to your initiative. It is clear to me that if it gives you a bonus to initiative (indicating foresight) you should also, at the very least, be able to dodge in the surprise round. Seriously, this should be errata'd, because as it stands, it makes no sense, that you can see into the future to gain a better initiative, yet can still be surprised.

Also, I'll take it as a kindness that you not insult the good DMs of the University of Western Australia. Just because you disagree with a ruling, that doesn't mean you get to make snide remarks about their competence. I think that FFG would certainly agree with me in that the DM's decision to override the letter of the rules to better fit the spirit of the game, is the DM's responsibility. If we could then proceed more maturely?

SanderScamper said:

More maturely? Im commenting based on what you have told us so far. And I didnt resort to name calling nor trolling, I simply said his choices havent seemed very good so far. I dont care what university you go to or how good you think you are, the fact that your GM is changing the rules in your favor to give you an advantage over other players seems a bit incompotent to me. Its the GM's job to keep everything fair and balanced, and make sure everyone has a good time. When one player keeps breaking the rules and the GM allows it, or helps him do it, its not a game most people would want to play.

And its not going to be errata'd. Powers arent all powerful, and the flavour text doesnt add to the rules. You can see slightly ahead in the future, so you get a bonus to initiative and extra awareness. Thats it. Just because you want to make a character who is never suprised and can kill everyone doesnt mean any of us care, especially when you want to change rules and powers to get it to happen.

If you want to houserule it, thats fine, there is a house rules forum.

Well i think this is the typical , you misread a single line or so in the book and alot possiblilities opened up, a common mistake everybody can misread a bit or forget a line or two in 400 pages book+ errata. I wouldnt call him cheater, this how ever is a powerful tool for him, if the other people somehow decides your overpowered and not fun to play with, then you can simply inform them as well of how you misunderstood a rule combination.

SanderScamper said:

I think you and Varius have been missing each other on this point here. Preternatural Awareness wouldn't out and out negate surprise once it's happened. After all, if you can glimpse the future or see better then others, you shouldn't get surprised in the first place. And that's what the +20 to awareness is for.

It will most definitly help with potential snippers as you will get a +20 to your opposed awareness/concealment test to spot them, even if they're a km out because of the whole glimpsing the future aspect of the power. So, in effect, it dose help negate surprise by helping insure that you aren't surprised to begin with. If you can spot the snipper before they pull the trigger, you won't be surprised when they do and will get to dodge.

That seems reasonable, however, I would think that the text of Preternatural awareness would indicate, at the very least, the ability to dodge during a surprise round. As always, DM's discretion.

I'd like to remind everyone that this event was a "Dark Heresy Dungeon Crawl" with 14000xp to spend. This night was supposed to be broken characters and as much over poweredness as is allowed in the rules. I certainly never would play this character, or would even get this character, in any situation other than a chaos happy one nighter, where having an overpowered character was the idea.

I'm not a munchkin when I play normally.

Power's aren't all powerful? Divine Shot says 'Hullo!' I don't play a psyker normally and to be honest, it would not bother me in the slightest if they got hit with the nerf bat, but you have to agree, they're the most powerful class at the highest levels, by a long, long way. I don't really mind, because with Perils of the Warp, they're probably not going to survive to high enough level to become godlike.

I would like to contest that "DM's bending the rules" is the responsibility of the DM when the rules fail to take into account a situation, or when something makes logical sense, like not really being surprised, when you can see into the future. It states this many times in the DH book. It's not "cheating to give me more powers" it's a logical extension of the description of the powers. It's pretty analagous to "Hey, if I throw a fireball, do things catch fire? The rules don't specify that I can light a campfire with it"

SanderScamper said:

Not really no.

Next time maybe give us something interesting that we can actually participate in or enjoy. A discussion on brokeness in the game, the fantastically elaborate backstory of such a twisted creation, an in-depth narrative of how the battle went down, asking advice on how to make the nastiest character imaginable. Any of these allow for discussion with other users.

As is the OP is just a load of stats and skills that any of us could come up with. Theres no discussion that can be had apart from how some of the rules were interpretted 'creatively' during the character building and in the game. So thats what youve got.

IMO Dark Heresy is actually fairly free from brokeness (has other problems of course). There is always something bigger and meaner than even the hardest character around the corner.

If designing the most character possible required merely literacy, then everyone else participating at the night (including, I might add, some individuals who are on the FFG playtesting team) would have created characters just as powerful. They did not.

If you appreciate character optimisation and rorting, then it's entertaining, most of the people at the night were pretty entertained, and I had fun making it and laughing at what it could do. If you don't appreciate character optimisation, then get out of the thread, because it's not exactly for you. Go read the fan fiction threads if that's what you want.

SanderScamper said:

Im not quite sure what you want? Do you want people to be impressed with your character building? They are not. You took the most obviously powerful stuff and didnt even play by the proper rules.

And if the people were on the playtesting team, they didnt know how to properly use psychic powers?

This seems like some self serving smug thread about how awesome you are. If you play by the rules, your character doesnt work, and is average at best and just has too much gear, and with the GM changing rules in your favour when its not needed, because the rules are clearly defined.

If Im GMing, I can create a character that is immune to damage, can teleport, and shoots lasers from his nipples that cut through armor and toughness. But Im not sure why anyone should care?

My character is completely within the rules. Only being able to manifest one power a turn is not that big of a hindrance.

My only purpose with this thread was to see if there were any improvements that could be made to the character. You're all acting as if optimising a character is as simple as picking the best abilities, when it's not, and if it were, then every single 14000xp character would be identical.

I seems I was mistaken with thinking that people who play DH would be rather more mature than regular forum people. You seem to all take it as some sort of personal insult that I dare post my character on the board, to discuss what limitations it has and see what would take it down. Instead of intelligent discourse, I've found nothing but naysaying, sniping(figuratively and literary) and somewhat petty nitpicking.

I'm disappointed.

I hardly comprehend why some people put up harsh feelings.

I plainly see this as an nice exsample of showing how certain power and skill combinations, work when pushed to the limit, and the lines are getting clarified.

Couple problems I see. First off I don't see how your Strength is possible. 2D10 +15+5 (Battlefleet) + 20 (buys) + 20 (power armor) = max of 80. You have 88. Good bionic arms only give +10 to Str Tests....not to Str itself. Therefore they do not add to damage as damage is not a Str test. Also, "Characters that have two bionic limbs do not gain double the bonus, but rather they may apply the bonus regardless of which bionic limb they are using." (DH pg. 153). Overall this doesn't have a big effect on your character but it is something to look at.

With regards to why Preternatural Awareness does not give you a dodge in a surprise round is because it helps you negate Surprise. You are surprised if there was a successfull use of the Concealment Skill. Concealment is opposed by Awareness so Preternatural Awareness already gives you a chance to avoid surprise. If you fail the test you are not aware of the attack and you can only dodge "if are were aware of the attack" (DH pg. 193).

There are a couple of ways i would try to fight you which could be done with even starter characters with the equipment and good rolls. First would obviously be the sniping route and hopefully catching you by surprise. Next would be launching choke gas or Frag missiles. A frag missile has blast 6 and you can only dodge "no further away then their Agility Bonus in metres" (DH pg 193). Choke gas has 1D10 +3 blast. In both cases I would argue that i wasn't trying to directly hit you but lead you a little possibly tryin to negate some of the negatives to hit you. That would be a DM call. Yes, there's only a small chance of the Frag doin actual damage, but it would be worth a try.

The other thing i would try is a webber which has blast 5. You could charge, i would dodge. Use acrobatics to half action disengage, then shoot with the webber. Again, you couldn't dodge the webber as the blast radius is too high. You would then be considered helpless, and hopefully i wouldn't be the last member of my team so other people could take advantage of that, as your strength is high enough you should be able to break out.

Overall, I wouldn't want to fight him....lol, as chances of survival are slim.

Personal interpretation which will include what I believe is a good example of how Preternatural Awareness would work fluff-wise... Watch Next starring Nicholas Cage; you don't see the exact future, but its possibilites. Ultimately, in Next Cage's character was able to pick the best possibility out of all of them.

" That's the problem with precognition. It's only 50-50 90% of the time. " - Trance Gemini; Andromeda -

-=Brother Praetus=-