Yet, in-game, the CR90 has 50% the firepower of the Victory-class.

Firepower isn't the whole issue. You also have to consider shields and the like. In Armada a VSD can one shot a CR-90, but the CR-90 can't do the same.

A CR-90 is also about half the points of a VSD, in fact a bit more then half. So it is balanced... however a SSD has 2,000 times the firepower of a ISD, or about 5,000 times more powerful then a VSD.

How do you possibly make something like that balanced in 300 points? The simple answer is you can't, just like you can't make a balanced ISD in X-Wing. Sliding scales for firewpower only go so far, before they break.

Yet, in-game, the CR90 has 50% the firepower of the Victory-class.

Firepower isn't the whole issue. You also have to consider shields and the like. In Armada a VSD can one shot a CR-90, but the CR-90 can't do the same.

A CR-90 is also about half the points of a VSD, in fact a bit more then half. So it is balanced... however a SSD has 2,000 times the firepower of a ISD, or about 5,000 times more powerful then a VSD.

How do you possibly make something like that balanced in 300 points? The simple answer is you can't, just like you can't make a balanced ISD in X-Wing. Sliding scales for firewpower only go so far, before they break.

I think you are missing the point being made.

In "canon", the VSD is 15x as powerful as the CR90. Scale is adjusted so in-game the VSD is 2x as powerful as the CR90. Still "more powerful"...much moreso...but not anything like its "real" scale.

So in "canon" an SSD is 5,000 times as powerful as a VSD* - but in-game you could have that as a 10x difference, instead. Again, it's still "more powerful" (and VASTLY more powerful), just scaled down.

That's what FFG is already doing - the ships are having their sizes and capabilities adjusted to fit within a game that sees 2-3 ships of any one type equal to opponents that are the 'next step up' in scale...rather than the 15x or 100x or 1000x multiplier that "canon" Star Wars would tell us is the difference.

* Of course, we don't even have "canon" numbers for the SSD, anyway. It's one ship that the 'canonization' process of EU material has never really touched, likely owing to the wild size discrepancies the ship experienced over its film history.

I think you are missing the point being made.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't get the point.

So in "canon" an SSD is 5,000 times as powerful as a VSD* - but in-game you could have that as a 10x difference, instead.

Which means a SSD would need to cost about 500-750 points. Which means it won't fit in a 300 point game.

that sees 2-3 ships of any one type equal to opponents that are the 'next step up' in scale...

Actually you're wrong. 2 CR-90's are the same cost as 1 VSD. 2 Neb B's are more expensive then a VSD. So it's not 2-3 of one ship type that's equal to the next step up. A CR-90's next step up is the Neb B or maybe the GSD... But 2-3 CR-90s will cost way more then a single one of either of those.

Right now Armada will max out at 3 VSD's and that leaves very little room for things like fighters and the like. That means you'll be seeing maybe 2 ISD's in a game... How do you possibly fit a SSD which has even 10 times the firepower of a VSD, when there's only room for 3 VSD's in the first place?

Right now Armada will max out at 3 VSD's and that leaves very little room for things like fighters and the like. That means you'll be seeing maybe 2 ISD's in a game... How do you possibly fit a SSD which has even 10 times the firepower of a VSD, when there's only room for 3 VSD's in the first place?

Well, as noted, if they put the SSD in at the same size as the XWM's "Tantive IV", it will presumably exist in the game the same way the "Tantive IV" exists in XWM...IE., not in the regular game, but in an 'epic'-scale format.

I definitely agree that it won't fit in the standard game - I certainly hope FFG doesn't try to shoe-horn it in.

But that doesn't mean it can't be included in Armada at all. The 'sliding scale' just brings such a huge amount of flexibility that it would certainly allow for it, and what an opportunity to drop that thing on the table...

I definitely agree that it won't fit in the standard game - I certainly hope FFG doesn't try to shoe-horn it in.

Which is my whole point it won't fit in the standard game. An Epic level game may or may not ever happen, I'd have to see more support for X-Wings epic format before I expect them to do it for Armada. Even then it will be a couple years before we'd see such a thing.

The 'sliding scale' just brings such a huge amount of flexibility that it would certainly allow for it

No the sliding scale has limits before it breaks. The difference between a CR-90 and a ISD isn't so massive that you can't make them work. But trying to add a single X-Wing into the game won't work, any more then a SSD won't because both are too far out of scale the game is starting with.

The ILM sketches used during production of 'Star Wars' in 1977 (significantly-pre-"Episode IV"...it was only "Star Wars" at this point) for the various ship sizes...

...now, I dunno about you guys, but as far as rough estimates go...that kinda points to some...let's say..."flexibility" regarding the ship scale.

What makes you think these sketches are supposed to represent any sort of scale?

They don't. When making the movies they just built models so they could film them. Why anyone would use this as an arguement for sliding scale or scale at all is beyond me.

I'm not one to take a side lightly, when FFG made the game they wanted scale to mean something. To that point some ships, Epic or otherwise, just won't work in game. Period... no amount of arguement makes it otherwise...

What makes you think these sketches are supposed to represent any sort of scale?

Even if (and it's a big if) the sketch IS supposed to show relative scales, these are pre production sketches that really don't have anything to do with the finished film. The size, design, concept of things can have changed radically from when this was drawn.

I think you are missing the point being made.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I don't get the point.

So in "canon" an SSD is 5,000 times as powerful as a VSD* - but in-game you could have that as a 10x difference, instead.

Which means a SSD would need to cost about 500-750 points. Which means it won't fit in a 300 point game.

that sees 2-3 ships of any one type equal to opponents that are the 'next step up' in scale...

Actually you're wrong. 2 CR-90's are the same cost as 1 VSD. 2 Neb B's are more expensive then a VSD. So it's not 2-3 of one ship type that's equal to the next step up. A CR-90's next step up is the Neb B or maybe the GSD... But 2-3 CR-90s will cost way more then a single one of either of those.

Right now Armada will max out at 3 VSD's and that leaves very little room for things like fighters and the like. That means you'll be seeing maybe 2 ISD's in a game... How do you possibly fit a SSD which has even 10 times the firepower of a VSD, when there's only room for 3 VSD's in the first place?

Same way you fit a 140 pt Corvette in X-wing.

On second thought.. I'm not going to bother.

Same way you fit a 140 pt Corvette in X-wing.

Clearly you didn't actually read the discussion, or you'd know why that answer is simply nonsense.

Because you can't fit a 140 point Corvette in a standard game of X-Wing, and as of right now there is no indication that there will ever be a Epic version of Armada. If such a thing were to happen then yes, you might be able to fit a SSD into the game...

But we were not talking about some hypothetical epic version of Armada.

Umm...yes I was?

I compared the addition of a SSD into Armada as being like the addition of Huge ships into X-wing, and I had the Tantive IV's 100+ points cost in mind when I said it.

We were talking about a SSD being about the size of the Tantive in x-wing, that carries the implication that it would be used in an up scaled version of the base game in the same way the Tantive is used in an up scaled version of x-wing.

So, yes, I think most of us were talking about epic armada.

The ILM sketches used during production of 'Star Wars' in 1977 (significantly-pre-"Episode IV"...it was only "Star Wars" at this point) for the various ship sizes...

...now, I dunno about you guys, but as far as rough estimates go...that kinda points to some...let's say..."flexibility" regarding the ship scale.

What makes you think these sketches are supposed to represent any sort of scale?

Because that's what this sketch was for. The models were very much not these sizes at all - the Tantive IV model, for example, was considerably larger than the Star Destroyer model.

So this sketch was the guide provided to ILM to help them understand the scale of the units when they were compositing scenes.

I don’t care if George Lucas himself made this drawing the CR-90 above the Falcon needs to be bigger!