You get that it's not just the dial you need right? You need the pilot cards (not really a problem) and the ship base. Folks seem to get upset about the Z-95s in the Most Wanted pack a bunch. There is only 1 extra ship base in the pack, so at most you would be able to use 1 'rebel' Z-95 with a rebel dial, and it would have to be the right pilot, so your list building options are limited.

The pack is designed from the start to outfit 2 Z-95s, so it has all the stuff to do that with any 2 you want in the package. Beyond that it's limited in what it can support. Likewise the Y-Wing supplies are limited to 2 Y-Wings, you supply 1 model, the package has the other. Do players think there is magic fairy dust in there to make all their other Z-95s magically compatible with S&V? Even without the dial restriction, you are only 'converting' 1, and that's if the list works out the right way.

Too much if-this-then for me personally. It's just easier and much more consistent to make it S&V components for S&V lists. Rebel components for rebel lists. Imperial components for rebel lists.

Who knows, maybe they will make a new version of the Z-95 pack with S&V and Rebel pilots in it (and both dials).

You get that it's not just the dial you need right?

Something which is constantly overlooked in these discussions.

Also, a crop duster pilot got into an F16 in Independence Day and WON THE WAR, so your argument there is invalid.

GOOD DAY, SIR

Man, I can't wait for S&V to land so people can start bringing those ultra-competitive YYYY and Z-swarm lists to tournaments!

No, seriously, it's going to be great. I might actually win some games.

You get that it's not just the dial you need right?

Something which is constantly overlooked in these discussions.

Or just find someone to let you borrow the missing tokens and dials.

Does your FLGS let you proxy the Transport-only X-Wings? Then they'll probably let you proxy Scum Z95s. If they don't let you proxy Tarn Mison, they probably won't let you proxy this.

Does your FLGS let you proxy the Transport-only X-Wings?

Proxy what about them? The dials are the same so are you talking the pilot cards? base inserts? Actual miniature?

Does your FLGS let you proxy the Transport-only X-Wings?

Proxy what about them? The dials are the same so are you talking the pilot cards? base inserts? Actual miniature?

Does your FLGS let you proxy the Transport-only X-Wings?

Proxy what about them? The dials are the same so are you talking the pilot cards? base inserts? Actual miniature?

Read their entire post instead of selectively quoting, it was pointed out that you need the base inserts/tokens, not just the dials. It's not a logic leap to figure what was being asked. Pilot Cards, Base Inserts/Tokens, Dials, Models. Of those four things it's likely that two of them are not a huge issue (Alt paint and regular paint models are the same and Dial may also be the same) to most people. Getting beyond that I think it's pretty reasonable to expect someone to actually have the other required items.

So people that don't like the idea of not being able to use your old dials, how do you explain using the base tiles? You'll still have to have the matching base tiles with the appropriate pilot name and pilot skill. Therefore, if you already own 4 Z-95s, but only buy 1 copy of Most Wanted, it makes perfect sense that you can only play 2 Scum Zs because, while the dials will likely be identical underneath the face lift, you always have to have the appropriate ship tile.

And by bringing this up I am not disagreeing. It is currently legal to alter the faces of your dials in any way you like as long as it does not interfere with the back plate that has the maneuvers on it. So, it makes sense, if the dials are the same, that you can use the other faction's dials. It does not, however, make any amount of sense to use the other faction's base tiles that display different pilots and pilot skill values. Basically the point is moot.

I understand that the tiles and cards all need to be from one faction, just dont get the ruling about the dials. unless the maneuvers are different. I guess if the dials have not been revealed, we just dont know yet,

Likely a confusion matter of something. That's only for tournament though, casual'll be full of cross dials.

There is only 1 extra ship base in the pack, so at most you would be able to use 1 'rebel' Z-95 with a rebel dial, and it would have to be the right pilot, so your list building options are limited.

You could theoretically fly two HWKs and two Firesprays from a single Most Wanted provided you chose very specific pilots if you could crossdial.

...

I think having all the dials on one side LOOK the same is important. Its already confusing when playing mirror matches. Now imagine a Rebel vs Scum match with a four rebel zs and a four scum zs, but only only 2 scum painted zs and dials, with 6 rebel painted zs and dials. It will get confusing. This is the perfect opportunity for a third party comany to make a dial topper.

...

So is this arguing for or against mixing Z-95 dials? If you think every side needs dials that appear different what happens when you run into a true mirror match where both sides are using the exact same dials already? I mentioned it earlier, and it is in the rules, but you can personalize your dials and because you can do that I don't see why you couldn't mix dials.

You get that it's not just the dial you need right?

Something which is constantly overlooked in these discussions.

I'm not sure that is entirely relevant even when it is something that is considered. The OP recognized that the "other" pieces may still be an issue but without dials you could NEVER take a "Scum Z-95" and use it in a rebel fleet even when you have rebel pilot cards and bases for the ship.

Where I am taking issue with FFG's apparent stance here is that if I want to run 4 Z-95s in a Rebel build I MUST buy 4 expansion packs even if I get Most Wanted. Each expansion has four pilot cards and two double sided bases so using the expansion ship means I have only used one base and one card; that leaves another base that could be used on something else and the cards that correspond to that base. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how this will work the other way as I don't know how many based and pilots Most Wanted will have for the Z.

You have to wonder how many calls FFG customer services will get after 'most wanted' comes out from people who have 'lost' S&V dials and need a replacement

I reckon it will always be those pesky Z95 and Y wing dials that get eaten by the dog/fall down the drain/ left at a tourny....

You have to wonder how many calls FFG customer services will get after 'most wanted' comes out from people who have 'lost' S&V dials and need a replacement

I reckon it will always be those pesky Z95 and Y wing dials that get eaten by the dog/fall down the drain/ left at a tourny....

I think in a lot of cases FFG is being unfairly treated here. I don't think they're bilking anyone for money, nor are they being unfair. In no other cases can ships cross from Faction to Faction, it's only in this particularly instance that this would be a possibility. They haven't even been released yet and people are upset because their potential Z Swarm is ruined. Honest, if you're wanting to run a Z-swarm, you may as well buy more Z-95s! At about $10-15 each I know this seems like a lot, but its NOWHERE NEAR the level to which GW requires expenditure to make a viable army.

I have 4 Z's as it is, and I will not be buying more Rebel versions. I will likely get 2 Most Wanted packs, which will give me a total of 8 Z's, and It will be an extremely unlikely situation that I might want to run more than 4 with Rebel, or more than 4 with Scum. I don't see what the big deal is.

Is it people who have just one Z and wish they had 2 or 3 more, and instead of being willing to buy 1 or 2 more they're hoping they can just use the Most Wanted ships? It would cost less to just buy 2 more Z-95 packs than it will be to buy the Most Wanted pack.

Jacob

Read their entire post instead of selectively quoting, it was pointed out that you need the base inserts/tokens, not just the dials. It's not a logic leap to figure what was being asked. Pilot Cards, Base Inserts/Tokens, Dials, Models. Of those four things it's likely that two of them are not a huge issue (Alt paint and regular paint models are the same and Dial may also be the same) to most people. Getting beyond that I think it's pretty reasonable to expect someone to actually have the other required items.

"Does your FLGS let you proxy the Transport-only X-Wings?"

Not the pilot cards or base inserts, but the x-wings, implying he was talking about the miniature itself.

All of which made the sentence quite vague. My post was an attempt to make sure that he wasn't confused and thinking that you had to field the gold trimmed miniature from the transport in order to use the pilots from it.

So maybe tone down the condescension a bit.

Where I am taking issue with FFG's apparent stance here is that if I want to run 4 Z-95s in a Rebel build I MUST buy 4 expansion packs even if I get Most Wanted. Each expansion has four pilot cards and two double sided bases so using the expansion ship means I have only used one base and one card; that leaves another base that could be used on something else and the cards that correspond to that base. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how this will work the other way as I don't know how many based and pilots Most Wanted will have for the Z.

Seriously?

This is exactly how it is with every other expansion. If you buy an X-wing expansion, you get 1 X-wing model, 2 cardboard bases, and 4 pilot cards. Why all of the sudden would you assume that you should be able to run 2 ships using 2 different pilot cards and both cardboard bases without buying a second ship?

To assume that because you have 2 cardboard bases and multiple pilot cards you could use a Tie Advanced model and dial and then run '2 X-wings' in a game is silly. That's essentially what you're proposing. Yes, I recognize that the Advanced and X-wing don't have the same dail, and the Z-95's will look identical where the above example are two obviously different ships. However, we don't yet know the dials, so maybe the Scum version will be different. In that case, it's an identical situation. Even if they're the same it's still similar.

Yes, the Z-95 that comes in Most Wanted may look identical, but it is Scum and Villiany ship, not a rebel ship.

In my mind, FFG may be the greatest and kindest game company because they're giving the cards, cardboard, and DIALS to run two additional ships in that pack: the Firespray and Hwk-290. You guys are whining because they're ripping you off, and yet they're doing something I've NEVER seen another company do, which is to give the free cross over of ships not included in the pack. That's an unreal gift, and all I see is complaining.

Jacob

Where I am taking issue with FFG's apparent stance here is that if I want to run 4 Z-95s in a Rebel build I MUST buy 4 expansion packs even if I get Most Wanted.

I'm not sure I follow... You think you should be able to run 4 Rebel Z95s in a list even though you don't own any?

I think in a lot of cases FFG is being unfairly treated here. I don't think they're bilking anyone for money, nor are they being unfair. In no other cases can ships cross from Faction to Faction, it's only in this particularly instance that this would be a possibility. They haven't even been released yet and people are upset because their potential Z Swarm is ruined. Honest, if you're wanting to run a Z-swarm, you may as well buy more Z-95s! At about $10-15 each I know this seems like a lot, but its NOWHERE NEAR the level to which GW requires expenditure to make a viable army.

I have 4 Z's as it is, and I will not be buying more Rebel versions. I will likely get 2 Most Wanted packs, which will give me a total of 8 Z's, and It will be an extremely unlikely situation that I might want to run more than 4 with Rebel, or more than 4 with Scum. I don't see what the big deal is.

Is it people who have just one Z and wish they had 2 or 3 more, and instead of being willing to buy 1 or 2 more they're hoping they can just use the Most Wanted ships? It would cost less to just buy 2 more Z-95 packs than it will be to buy the Most Wanted pack.

Jacob

I would be willing to wager that it's just people crying that the ships aren't free. This game is nothing like 40K price structure wise and anyone that makes it out to be is disingenuous at best. These same people seem to think that because they bought one miniature that they are entitled to any and all future iterations of that miniature. I for one am totally stoked by FFG's generosity by giving us a box that has essentially three free ships in it. $45 for three small base ships is the going retail rate, which makes the extra y-wing, the firespray and the hwk extras. FFG is doing us a solid that you could bet the family farm that GW would NEVER DO.

So here is an idea - just spitballing here - if you cannot afford to buy the ships then don't buy the ships. However, I would say that even after buying 100 points of everything for this game and then some, I STILL haven't hit what I've spent on my Blood Angel army.

You have to wonder how many calls FFG customer services will get after 'most wanted' comes out from people who have 'lost' S&V dials and need a replacement

I reckon it will always be those pesky Z95 and Y wing dials that get eaten by the dog/fall down the drain/ left at a tourny....

As others have pointed out already, those extra dials will do exactly nothing for you without the cardboard bases and pilot cards to go with them.

Yeah i was being facetious... it wasnt a suggestion to do so.

Some people on here are far too literal. However, what would be to stop you, if you were of a mind to, saying you'd lost the ship bases etc at the same tourny

I was originally reading it as wanting to use Rebel dials in a Scum fleet, but it sounds like it's the opposite. He effectively has the eight ship tokens from his four Rebel expansion packs, plus the pilot cards from the same, and wants to use the Scum dials to power an eight-ship Rebel fleet without buying four more Rebel dials. That makes more sense to me.

Now watch the Scum have a different dial and make this whole argument moot.

Never mind, not worth wading in.

Pretty much what i was thinking.

At the mo my Z95s re going to have a slight repaint (to go along with the HWK) to make them multipurpose as both a seperate rebel fleet or a pirate faction.

I'll be overjoyed if I can use some of the 4 z95s I've got already as part of S&V.

Out of interest, and i may have missed this, is their a dial for the HWK in 'most wanted'?

Pretty much what i was thinking.

At the mo my Z95s re going to have a slight repaint (to go along with the HWK) to make them multipurpose as both a seperate rebel fleet or a pirate faction.

I'll be overjoyed if I can use some of the 4 z95s I've got already as part of S&V.

Out of interest, and i may have missed this, is their a dial for the HWK in 'most wanted'?

Excellent.

Well that most of my repaints sorted then!

Where I am taking issue with FFG's apparent stance here is that if I want to run 4 Z-95s in a Rebel build I MUST buy 4 expansion packs even if I get Most Wanted.

I'm not sure I follow... You think you should be able to run 4 Rebel Z95s in a list even though you don't own any?

No. I own two. Therefore I have FOUR base tokens. Now I will use two of those bases with those miniatures. I want to be able to use the other two with the miniatures from Most Wanted but apparently will be unable to because the dials for those Z-95s will somehow be incompatible with the ships now that I'm using those models in a different faction.

The point is that despite owning 4 Z-95s once I've gotten Most Wanted I still will be unable to run 4 of them despite having the other pieces I need because for some strange reason the dials will not be compatible.

Where I am taking issue with FFG's apparent stance here is that if I want to run 4 Z-95s in a Rebel build I MUST buy 4 expansion packs even if I get Most Wanted. Each expansion has four pilot cards and two double sided bases so using the expansion ship means I have only used one base and one card; that leaves another base that could be used on something else and the cards that correspond to that base. I'll admit I'm not entirely sure how this will work the other way as I don't know how many based and pilots Most Wanted will have for the Z.

Seriously?

This is exactly how it is with every other expansion. If you buy an X-wing expansion, you get 1 X-wing model, 2 cardboard bases, and 4 pilot cards. Why all of the sudden would you assume that you should be able to run 2 ships using 2 different pilot cards and both cardboard bases without buying a second ship?

To assume that because you have 2 cardboard bases and multiple pilot cards you could use a Tie Advanced model and dial and then run '2 X-wings' in a game is silly. That's essentially what you're proposing. Yes, I recognize that the Advanced and X-wing don't have the same dail, and the Z-95's will look identical where the above example are two obviously different ships. However, we don't yet know the dials, so maybe the Scum version will be different. In that case, it's an identical situation. Even if they're the same it's still similar.

Yes, the Z-95 that comes in Most Wanted may look identical, but it is Scum and Villiany ship, not a rebel ship.

In my mind, FFG may be the greatest and kindest game company because they're giving the cards, cardboard, and DIALS to run two additional ships in that pack: the Firespray and Hwk-290. You guys are whining because they're ripping you off, and yet they're doing something I've NEVER seen another company do, which is to give the free cross over of ships not included in the pack. That's an unreal gift, and all I see is complaining.

Jacob

Very much so although you may need to see the clarification I gave to Vandor.

It could be equated to you buying a Transport. Now the transport has an X-Wing and a dial for it. However you may only use that dial with the pilot that came with that ship. You may NOT have Tarn, Hobbie, Porkins or Wes in a squadron with unless you happen to own another Transport because those ships would have to be used with the X-Wing dial that they came with.

We may also look at the TIE Interceptor and Imperial Aces. If you only own one of each then you apparently shouldn't be allowed to fly Fel and an Alpha in the same squadron because they could "only" be used with the dial from the Expansion. In some ways Imperial Aces is also a great example on how ship use can be limited without limiting dials; it is IMPOSSIBLE to run four Royal Guard Pilots, or even two of them with either Jax or Kanos, unless you own two Ace boxes because you don't have the base pieces for it.

If FFG is going to make it so that a dial is incompatible with its model I believe they should have just gone and used a completely different set of ships. In a lot of ways having extra dials in Most Wanted is really a complete waste of space except for those who think everything should look alike. That cardboard space could have easily been used for more bases to make it even easier to field complete squadrons without jumping through so many hoops.

Unless I'm mistaken right now every model comes with exactly one base for each ship (huge ships being a little different) and a dial for that model. To me the model/base/dial simply represents the ship as a whole and it is the pilot (card) and base chip that differentiate them from other ships of the same type. While you can not manipulate the base's shape for game play issues the rules allow you to change the paint job on your ship how ever you like. Those same rules also say you can personalize your dials provided that you don't provide maneuver clues on the bottom. It sounds to me like when Most Wanted comes out it is just going to blow all of that up.