Howdy all!

This is a list I've been playing for a few weeks, it started as a bit of a joke but the more I play it the more I love it, here we go....

Rexler Brath

-Predator

-HLC

-Stealth Device

50pts

Colonel Vessery

-VI

-Cluster Missiles

-HLC

-Stealth Device

50pts

I am a big fan of the defender and have read quite a bit about its pros and cons, on paper the list and even the ship itself always seems to have some short comings but after 14 games with 10 wins the only short coming I ccould really see were their ability to fight phantoms (namely VI'ed double phantom lists).

If you were daft enough like me to get two defenders have a go with the list and see what you think, don't expect to get it right first time because its tough to fly but because it's only two small ships you have a load of room and you're fast, it's a bit like those double firespray lists you see but less fire arc coverage

I honestly can't understand why people dislike this ship?

I honestly can't understand why people dislike this ship?

In terms of cost efficiency, the generics are terrible.

Pros:

• In absolute terms it is a beast of a ship.
• The named pilots are 1 point cheaper than would normally be expected, and Vessery is very consistent if you build a squad around him, so that's a plus.
• The ship itself looks amazing

About the squad:

In that particular setup, both pilots will seldom be using their abilities. I guess that's OK if you are just looking at it from a PS8 bid perspective. Those HLCs probably won't see much use after the first round or 2, with only 2 ships it will be pretty easy for your enemy to close in quickly. With such a high PS it might be worth putting Engine Upgrade on them instead, but that's generally counter to staying at long range with the HLC.

Cheers for your input, I had thought about the engine upgrade (and will give them a shot soon I think) but it was the passive nature of the stealth device I liked, it meant I could be survivable while my action allowed my dice to be more effective. Vessery's ability is used all the time, it's part of the reason he has VI so he can fire before Brath to take advantage of his lock, and with cluster missiles its crazy! Tho you are right about Brath, I have never used his ability once that I can remember.

Typically I like to build lists that seem a little over costed or use things in an odd way, I think that pretty much any list can be competative if you learn to fly it, we've had some mental lists do well in our meta on a local and national level.

The more I use the defender, the more I really like it. That being said however.... The only list I've flown with two of them in it that actually felt like it was competitive in a tournament setting was two PS3 defenders and a recon spec bounty hunter. Simple, but effective, and actually pretty fun to fly. For fun the double defender HLC and Jonus can be really good, or really bad depending on if your dice like you or not (mine generally don't).

Havn't done "double D" but I do love Vessary.

For your list I would sub out HLC's on both for a single use long range missile; you're going to get rushed. I also don't know about stealth devices. Should open up enough points for a third ship. Even if it's just an Academy Tie that you can block with or just fly out front to sacrifice I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

I find Engine Upgrade useful to overcome the Defender's limited maneuverability, since combined with the White 4K it effectively equals a very sharp 135º turn, with the ability to choose direction, if you need it.

IMO, with the HLCs you don't really need those Cluster Missiles, so I'd consider upgrading the stealth devices to engines, at least for Vessery. Spare points left for initiative bidding or for any other thing you should need. However, take note that in this list, Brath will be most of the time target-locking for Vessery (and thus, unable to use its own ability or boosts).

Generic defenders are IMO, overcosted-overrated, and named Defenders fare very bad if not babysitted by other ships. When people say "I was successful with the defender..." what they really mean is "The rest of the squad succedeed in supporting the defender..."

Brath can provide the support that Vessery needs... However, there's is no one to support Brath.

Vessery was in the squad that won at the 32 person NOVA Open tournament.

Winner: Ira Mayers (2nd seed) - Echo + Veteran Instincts + Advanced Cloaking Device + Weapons Engineer + Fire Control Systems; Col. Vessery + Veteran Instincts + Heavy Laser Cannon; Backstabber (3I)

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/120806-2014-miscellaneous-large-tournaments-results/

Personally I would prefer:

Whisper + VI + ACD + FCS

Vessery

Yorr + FCS

or

Whisper + VI + ACD + FCS + Rebel Captive

Vessery

OGP + FCS

I see you got the NOVA Data already MJ! We will be posting that final game to YouTube here soon, probably tomorrow actually. I have my league night tonight.

Pros:

• The ship itself looks amazing

I don't believe you. Please show me the math behind that assertion.

(Sorry, I felt a spasm of trollishness.)

The Defender is a very cool looking ship...

Trying to figure a good 2 ship build myself.. may opt the EU route, just for that maneuverability aspect.

Pros:

• The ship itself looks amazing

I don't believe you. Please show me the math behind that assertion.

(Sorry, I felt a spasm of trollishness.)

3 > 2

TIE_Defender_Wings = 3

TIE_Interceptor_Wings = 2

TIE Defender > TIE Interceptor

Q.E.D.

As a slight variation to the Nova open champion list, Im actually growing quite fond of:

Whisper + VI + FCS + ACD

Vessery + HLC + VI

Backstabber

98pts

Its the first list I ever felt I liked Vessery and the Defender in, well besides Starlingers version with Soontir and Doom Shuttle.

Im still warming up to the Defender, but I DEFINITELY like the ship more in smaller lists, certainly makes it easier to duck out of the fight for a few rounds to maximize HLC use.

I certainly think your list has some cool stuff. Stealth Device seems the right choice if you plan to hold onto the focuses for a couple of rounds on defense, which isn't impossible with Predator and Vessery's ability. Of course, can always move to hull if SD becomes inconsistent. Also, best anti PS 9 Phantom remedy is obviously VI on Brath. Which might not be a "horrid" idea if you want to put Engine Upgrade on 1 of the Defenders, which will make it better against Phantoms as well. Of course, now both offense and defense take a hit. I think ill personally give that a try some time and share any interesting results.

Ill also add, the only ship I hate having an HLC Defender against is the B Wing. Just takes so many shots to kill, and the opponent can have 2 x B Wings for the cost of Vessery. That matchup is where I miss having a tie swarm.

As a slight variation to the Nova open champion list, Im actually growing quite fond of:

Whisper + VI + FCS + ACD

Vessery + HLC + VI

Backstabber

98pts

Its the first list I ever felt I liked Vessery and the Defender in, well besides Starlingers version with Soontir and Doom Shuttle.

Play it while you can now, before wave 5 DoomDecimator wrecks all elite TIE Phantoms and squints!

I really like Vessery. I do agree the generics are less appealing.

As a slight variation to the Nova open champion list, Im actually growing quite fond of:

Whisper + VI + FCS + ACD

Vessery + HLC + VI

Backstabber

98pts

Its the first list I ever felt I liked Vessery and the Defender in, well besides Starlingers version with Soontir and Doom Shuttle.

Play it while you can now, before wave 5 DoomDecimator wrecks all elite TIE Phantoms and squints!

Right?

Though I imagine there will be some hesitation towards putting Vader on the Decimator. And besides that, it is only the Rear Admiral + VI that'll be SUPER scary, well I cant forget about the obvious Rebel Captive which SHOULD find its way onto every Decimator for the sole reason of easy Phantom counter. Though, I feel Phantoms might find there place as an easy way to get range 1 of the HLC Outrider, which might end up being more popular.

Back to putting Yorr in my lists...you're right.

Pros:

• The ship itself looks amazing

I don't believe you. Please show me the math behind that assertion.

3 > 2

TIE_Defender_Wings = 3

TIE_Interceptor_Wings = 2

TIE Defender > TIE Interceptor

Q.E.D.

Do you have an equation for the relationship between wings and the degree of looking amazing? Is there a diminishing return?

Pros:

• The ship itself looks amazing

I don't believe you. Please show me the math behind that assertion.

3 > 2

TIE_Defender_Wings = 3

TIE_Interceptor_Wings = 2

TIE Defender > TIE Interceptor

Q.E.D.

Do you have an equation for the relationship between wings and the degree of looking amazing? Is there a diminishing return?

With increasing fractal dimension the appearance asymptotically approaches pure awesomeness.

Pros:

• The ship itself looks amazing

I don't believe you. Please show me the math behind that assertion.

(Sorry, I felt a spasm of trollishness.)

You are now obligated to make an apology thread.

I honestly can't understand why people dislike this ship?

About the squad:

Those HLCs probably won't see much use after the first round or 2, with only 2 ships it will be pretty easy for your enemy to close in quickly. With such a high PS it might be worth putting Engine Upgrade on them instead, but that's generally counter to staying at long range with the HLC.

I'm not sure there's a ship better at maintaining range with an HCL than the defender, thanks to the white K-turn. It does take some getting used to the hang of flying it with that purpose in mind and using the angles and banks rather than the straights to create that space.

When people say "I was successful with the defender..." what they really mean is "The rest of the squad succedeed in supporting the defender..."

Nah, I'm not sure this is what they mean at all (I don't), at least anymore than any other squad.

Seems most people think the HLC shouldn't be in the list? My initial thoughts were with only 2 ships I needed to roll more dice, killing (or crippling) a ship every turn has been how I've won most of my games. By reducing your opponents attacks back you stand more chance of keeping your stealth device active.

TBH the visuals of the ship are not to my taste, this is the first time I've played a war game using minis I don't like I just thought I saw potential in it and didn't want to be another phantom fan boy

Drop Brath for two Deltas and you got a decent 3 ship Defender list. I like Vessery w/ Outmaneuver or cluster missiles. It doesn't make sense to run Brath and Vessery together. Brath need focus and Vessery TLs. No synergy there.

With the double Defender list, I'd keep the HLCs for the reasons stated. I'd also think about swapping out Predator on Brath for PTL. That effectively gives both HLCs TL/Focus on the approach (or Focus used to flip damage cards on a TLed HLC). Sure, you can't bank and dump stress, but I think you just blow the enemy formation with a green 5-straight instead of K-turning right away. Also, you could take advantage of the high-speed maneuvers (the straights, 3-banks and 3-turns) to make some distance while they're K-turning before you turn around and start hammering away with HLCs again.

I've never run a list like this, though, this is purely theoretical.

Vessery has a nice ability, and he is my second favorite Imp pilot from the lore.

If you go naked Brath and Vessery, you can squeeze in a OGP with title or weaps, then still have 4 more points. Then it at least gives a target for the enemy while the defenders flank.

I've only really played with HLC defenders. It's all about keeping at range 3 so you roll 4 def dice. Rexler's ability is nice, but I can almost never get it to go off outside of an epic game. Though I did put 4 crits on chewie once. It was glorious. 2 direct hits, injured pilot, and damaged sensor array.

In my opinion the defender is the only ship yet that has no glaring need for upgrades. You can make it better with them but even naked the defender is still very good at defending and attacking. I would go with Vessery + ion and two deltas.