Here is a actual play video. Maybe it will show you how the system works

Thank you, Daeglan.

I think it you are also both underestimating and overestimating how Obligation works. For instance, in you're example of the Doctor who accidentally killed a crimelord's son... That actually sounds like a really high Obligation. Like... average starting Obligation is 15, depending on party size, and that defaults to representing you having to buy a ship on credit. Han had a little higher than normal (+5 or 10, maybe), enough that Jabba sent Greedo after him when his Obligation was rolled (a lone Minion, MAYBE the weakest Rival ever). That was over a little money, and if you take the Special Editions as canon, they had a fairly pleasant conversation afterwards. Now, even if the guy is low on the crime lord totem pole... I'm pretty sure he'd want that character straight up KILLED, or at least brought to him in chains.That implies to me a lot higher than the baseline Obligation, probably +15 at LEAST. Keep in mind that the magnitude of your Obligation, and the severity of the actions that caused it, should go hand-in-hand. If you didn't want any extra, than you shouldn't have written such a harsh backstory for your character. And as a compensation for having so much worse an Obligation than most, your guy would get extra gear.

Also, take it from me; having your Obligations come up *IS FUN*. It adds complications to what is happening around you, and complications make things interesting. For instance, the other day one of the PC's in my group got his Criminal (Wanted by the Empire) Obligation triggered, and I tied it into what was going down (a business deal with a "reputable businessman"). The deal went well, and what was going to happen afterwards was an Imperial raid, anyway... but he got a despair on the Negotiation check (though still succeeded), so I combined the plot with the despair and the triggered Obligation to say that the Imperial raid is happening because of the character being spotted there, and it makes further business dealings more complicated, because the guy will always remember that he's the reason they got raided by Imperials that one time. Stuff like that. Using your Doctor example, a triggered Obligation could mean that he got spotted by a bounty hunter, and will have to fight/talk his way out of that mess, in addition to whatever was happening elsewhere.

Finally, I'm guessing you don't actually own any of the books? If not, you may wanna give Age of Rebellion a try instead. They use Duty instead of Obligation (when it triggers, you gain a +1 to your Wound Threshold), so, definitely a much more rewarding system. I also recommend buying the Edge or Age Beginner's Game. Not only do they come with a set of dice, you can also see what it's like to play for not very much money ($20 I think, not much more expensive than a set of dice which you'll need anyway). The pregens actually are a little more advanced than a regular starting character, though it basically works out the same if you just... take on a little more Obligation (the Beginner Game for Edge doesn't actually use the Obligation mechanic). Hell, I think Under a Black Sun is a free download, which comes with pregens, so you can give it a play-through with only dropping money on the dice (and even THEN, you can find free dice rollers in several places online. I'd even be willing to send you a link). It's just... the probabilities aren't as different as you'd think between Green and Yellow dice, in fact it's mathematically better to roll more dice than roll less upgraded ones, and even rolling 2 greens for something gives you a higher-than-50% chance at success on most of the rolls you're gonna be doing (the most common difficulty you're ever gonna face is 2 purple dice, even at high levels), so, it's really not as bad as you think.

@Azrael: Hmm, interesting. I had thought it would be base-level Bounty: he's got a good-sized price on his head that people sometimes try to collect on, but he moves around a lot and the galaxy's a big place. I see what you're saying though, and I appreciate you sharing that example.

I have bought the EotE main book (and the dice app for my iPhone, since I lose real dice too easily). And yeah, a couple other people mentioned that while throwing yellows is always better, it's not as if throwing a handful of greens makes you gimp.

But if you guys are going to read every single thing I write as a dismissal of your reassurances and a criticism of the precious, then yes, it's probably best that we drop this. I'll just thank you for your contributions to this point.

Personally for all your "issues" I think you would have been better off investing in AoR rather than EotE. And also getting the AoR beginner set too. The beginner sets are very good at introducing the game and its ins and outs. Maybe once you actually play you may actually begin to understand what people are saying.

But if you guys are going to read every single thing I write as a dismissal of your reassurances and a criticism of the precious, then yes, it's probably best that we drop this. I'll just thank you for your contributions to this point.

Get used to it. It's how the RAW Warriors and FFG Fanbois roll.

Geez Louise! Fans on a game's forum. Wonders never cease.

@evileeyore:

Get used to it. It's how the RAW Warriors and FFG Fanbois roll.

I want to be very clear about this: I am absolutely, completely uninterested in forum politics. Maybe knasserII and progressions and I are starting to talk past each other, but that doesn't mean I'm down with seeing them derided as "fanbois" or whatever. If you have axes to grind with other posters, grind them somewhere else, and don't think for a minute that I want you on "my side."

Let me start with this: in my experience, players are inspired by the iconic characters within game settings. People don't generally come to a Star Wars game with a burning urge to play a throwaway thug like Greedo, or Unidentified Smuggler #3 who appears briefly in the Jabba's palace scenes in Return of the Jedi; rather, they want to play a Boba Fett or a Han Solo.

One man's throwaway is another man's icon; Lucas himself was surprised that Boba Fett became so popular. I'm sure there's a lesson in there somewhere...

Now, most players recognize that iconic characters are seasoned veterans with years (if not decades) of experience that starting PCs don't yet possess, and they're happy to participate in a game that tells the story of how their alter-egos reached that level. But ultimately they want to play heroes (or villains) who can legitimately aspire to greatness, not mediocrities who can at best aspire to competence.

This line of games (Edge, Age, Force and Destiny) is absolutely capable of capturing this feel.

Starting equipment seems like a similar story. I'm a firm believer in the "keep the players hungry" principle, but with just 500 starting credits it's nigh impossible for a character to afford even basic gear. For instance, want to play a slicer? You can buy either the slicer tools you absolutely require to do your job, or you can have a gun. But you can't have both to start with, unless you screw yourself and the rest of the group by taking on more Obligation. Bounty hunter? You can have a gun or some armor but not both, unless Obligation. Frontier doctor? Gun or medpac but not both, unless Obligation. And so on. The starting credit allotment is so stingy that I'm not sure how any EotE game avoids turning into a decidedly un-Star Wars-esque scavenging-off-the-bodies-of-the-dead exercise.

Obligation should really be seen as a character resource and less as a "taboo." You'll be much happier and live longer, healthier lives if you encourage the occasional indulgence in Obligation. Also, don't use it as a "screw the players" mechanic. It's basically a built-in complication generator to keep things interesting.

The Order 66 Podcast, Episode 3 - The Obligometer, time code 1:04:30 is when the "meat" of the show starts with Sterling Hershey (the creator of the Obligation mechanics) talking about Obligation. Good to listen.

A friend of mine who I was talking about this stuff with made the point: why not just increase PCs' starting XP and/or credit allotment? Well, sure, I could do that. But I hate having to house rule my way around problems like this. If the default EotE character generation rules reliably produce desperate Greedos rather than young, aspiring Han Solos, then I'd argue that it's not any kind of Star Wars that I recognize, and nothing that I want to waste a lot of time trying to fix.

As others have said, it's not really a "fix" to simply increase XP at game start.

Here's how to handle it: allow the players to create starting characters with their RAW species XP, and then once they have bought their characteristics and free skill ranks and all, give them an extra 50 or 300 or however much XP to spend as they see fit. You can put in caveats as to how they spend this free XP. In any event, such a thing is not a house rule and not a fix. It is simply starting the game with the feel that you and your players want.

I can understand the aversion to such a thing as well, due to the lack of CLs and CRs and such, but dude it's much more simple than you may think:

• Check out your players' dice pools. Your average bad guy should be rolling about the same number of dice for their skills, and challenging tasks should likewise be presented with the same number of dice.
• This means that if a player is rolling three dice (whether green or yellow) for a skill, a Hard check (3 purples) should be an appropriate challenge for him.
• Subtract a die if you want the difficulty to be less challenging, add a die if you want it to be more challenging.
• That is a good starting point, anyway. Try it and see how it works for you.

EDIT: The most recent line of YALP (Yet Another Live Play Podcast) episodes set in the Star Wars universe did this really well, I thought. Check out the character creation rules here .

OP: The FFG system plays a bit differently then any version of the game I've played before. Like yourself I've been on board since the WEG days. IMO this system far surpasses all of them in that it "feels" like star wars. I realize that this is an opinion, but it is held by many.

That said, I've also come across a ton of people that had a lot of negative things to say about it, before they sat for a few games. If you can find the beta boards for Edge of the Empire, look for the threads that talk about how asinine the dice are... you'll see tons of complaining, and negative comments. "I don't want to be forced into new dice" was a common one. Looking in the boards now, you don't see those comments in any significant degree, you don't see any "I wish I never bought these dice", or regrets for conforming.

I too, was skeptical of many of the designs and methods, including obligation, when I was first reading through the book(s), by and large the system has won me over after seeing it operate.

I can see you have a host of reasons, points, and counter points as to the merits and flaws of the system. From the point of a newbie, they are valid arguments, and insights, against what you've established for your basis. While countering your arguments may help you to gain some insight, I feel the best advise I can give you is play/run the game rules as written (RaW), including character creation, for a few sessions, see it in play, get a feel for it, then institute the changes that make it work for you and your crew.



Here are some notes that I'll pass that you can take or leave.

The narrative system isn't for everyone, and a lot of the fun of this style stems from player involvement, as they get to add to the narration to varying degrees. To encourage this I leave all the player's dice results up to them to describe, unless an adventure specifically states a result or I have some investigative information to impart and they give me an avenue to do it. This makes the game more dynamic for me as the GM and prevents me from falling into the ruts of X die roll always means Y. To me, this makes me think on my toes, to address the minor changes to the story the players present. This method isn't for everyone, and those GM's that like to micromanage (no offense intended), it tends to put them off.

Some of the replies in this thread are speaking of different games. Giving you a Force and Destiny answer isn't likely going to help you very much in an EtoE game, although the concepts are the same. The point is, take them with a grain of salt. Try and see what the person is trying to explain in an EtoE environment, which I assume is what you're looking into given the boards you're posting in.

As to new characters not being better then Han Solo...
No matter how you cut it, Han Solo is still a human, Chewy is still a wookie. On that base level they are no different then every other member of their species.
Leveling in this game is the progression of aptitude in relation to life's experiences. It's not sudden boosts to your biology, and you don't suddenly become a better human, you become a better smuggler/soldier/dancer/etc..

When a brand new character joins the 2 year established group, that character fits right in. They don't hit anywhere near as often for the extra damage, and often fail at skill attempts (or at least don't succeed so spectacularly), and their gear blows, but they still fit and contribute to the party. It doesn't feel like you're trying to shove a first level dude in a tenth level party, it feels like you've taken a person right out of college and stuck them with a grip of educated people that have been in the work force for a few years.

Starting gear: Don't sweat it. If a character starts out without a gun, they just pick one up off the first bad guy they come across, assuming they can use a weapon and want one. Gear is fairly fluid in this game. It comes and goes until the characters find something they are attached to, then they modify it and make an attempt to keep it around. Unless you're going to come at them with an army of troopers (not EtoE ish), the starting funds are thematically accurate. Heck, one of the mechanics in the game is set up so the character's can produce minor gear items out of thin air (for a destiny point). It's one of the ways, I pointed to above, they can add to the story.

Take in the system as a whole when considering power levels, not the characters. The actual starting character, before being armed is exactly the same. Yet, dropping an EtoE character into Age of Rebellion, out of the box, can be asking for a difficult time. You can do it with the ammosexuals without a problem, but the politico is going to have a rough time of things. Some characters in EotE don't even get any combat training, but in AoR, combat is a foregone conclusion.

In Edge of the Empire you have a rags to riches concept going. They start with almost nothing, and a good portion of them can't even shoot a gun, much less take out a tank. But they don't have to take out tanks, they deal with street gangs who, for the most part, can't take out tanks either. The geared out bounty hunter is the BBEG for an EtoE group. In Age of Rebellion the geared out bounty hunter is more the norm. In an AoR game, players get better gear, like armor, from the rebellion (or whatever military they work for) because their BBEG is an AT-AT.

This is why you see the posts in these boards about GMs having a hard time with their ammosexual, because frankly, the rest of the party isn't set up to be on that par, and it can be difficult to isolate the individual to provide what they require and not impact the other party members. That is until you realize that combat isn't necessary in EtoE One of my groups haven't been in combat in 2 months. They pride themselves on it, having one of those "___________ days since an injury" things.
The experience points you get are for point A to point B, they don't care how you got there.

For instance: your mission could be access this computer. There is a squad of stormtroopers guarding the door. Your party could disguise themselves and get past them. They could talk their way past them. They could stealth their way past, they could distract the storm troopers and get past them. Or they could open fire and shoot their way past. The experience they gain is for getting on the computer. The stormtroopers don't factor into it at all So logically the best route is the one that doesn't cost you anything, including health.

In EtoE:"The struggle" is very much a living, breathing, part of the campaign, it's why obligation works. Crime-lords and their gangs provide a large part of the opposition, but the also present an avenue for escape, given that a crime-lord usually has gobs of money laying around, and always needs some type job done.