I am in the same boat, after recently deciding to embrace the dark side and start flying for the closest thing we have to a proper sith fleet. I've got a few lists I am working on, all built around the theme of at least 2 tie defenders. Any feedback on them would be appreciated, as I feel the defender may be a bit of a sleeper ship.

List 1, spooky ghosts

Whisper-veteran instincts, fire control system, advanced cloaking device
2x Delta Squadron Pilots

I like this list a lot. It can hit hard, and has good survivability. The only reason I don't think I will run it is because of the threat Han Solo, and to a lesser extent all falcons and firesprays pose to it. Solo is pretty common in my local meta, and if my list can beat up 80% of my opponents, but loses fast to the other 20, it is a bad list. Something something Solo OP somethingsomethingsomething ffg please nerf.

List 2, Rat Squadron

3x Delta Squadron Pilots with Ion Cannons

I think this capitalizes on the defender's ability to get behind people. You play like a rat. Never directly engaging, just making quick strafing runs to ion ships before k-turning behind them to finish them off. I think in a dogfight situation, this list could be absolutely brutal, especially in a long game. However, tournament games are short, and I am sure someone can find a way to slow play even against a list that ions most of their fleet. It also doesn't have any way of doing sudden damage bursts beyond flying into range 1.
Alternative: Put proton rockets on all the defenders.

List 3, Fett's Jets
2x Delta Squadron Pilot

Boba Fett with Adrenaline Rush or Veteran Instincts

I know Fett isn't all that popular, but I think his maneuver option is fantastic The Firespray plays really well with defenders, and this list can really put on the hurt with its' strafing runs. Fett with VI can let me bank after I have seen where everyone else is going, but adrenaline rush can let me do a k-turn to come back around with no penalty one turn.
Alternative: Drop Fett for a regular Bounty Hunter and put the Ion Cannons back on the Deltas.

"Defenders shoot first"

Darth Vader (31)
TIE Advanced (29), Swarm Tactics (2)

Colonel Vessery (37)
TIE Defender (35), Swarm Tactics (2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

You've got three pilots shooting at Skill 9, that way (Vader chains to Vessery who chains to the Delta pilot). And, interestingly, the TIE Advanced doesn't have much of a problem staying in range 1 of the Defenders - the Defender dial isn't actually much better than the Advanced (aside from that white K-turn, but Vader doesn't have to be facing the same way as the Defenders to stay in range 1 and provide the chained PS boost).

As a result, you've also got a Defender that moves + actions at skill-1, so can play a bit of an action denial/blocking game, if needed. But they all shoot at skill 9, and it's a 98 point list, giving you initiative almost all the time (if you want it), so...can deal with the worst of the Phantom shens. Obviously, Vader should generally turtle when the enemy can shoot him (focus + evade), as losing him would be very bad for the list. When he's on the offensive, he should TL + focus, and make sure he lets Vessery shoot before him so Vessery can immediately gain the benefit of Vader's TL (generally the TIE Defenders otherwise just 'focus' every turn, as you do).

All theorycrafting, here, but when I was kicking around the idea of a dual-Defender list, the options available to this list seemed to be the best way to deal with the annoying Phantom meta...

Do you ever run Defenders without Heavy Laser Cannons? Three dice doesn't seem that bad, and seven points is quite a lot.

"Defenders shoot first"

Darth Vader (31)

TIE Advanced (29), Swarm Tactics (2)

Colonel Vessery (37)

TIE Defender (35), Swarm Tactics (2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

You've got three pilots shooting at Skill 9, that way (Vader chains to Vessery who chains to the Delta pilot). And, interestingly, the TIE Advanced doesn't have much of a problem staying in range 1 of the Defenders - the Defender dial isn't actually much better than the Advanced (aside from that white K-turn, but Vader doesn't have to be facing the same way as the Defenders to stay in range 1 and provide the chained PS boost).

As a result, you've also got a Defender that moves + actions at skill-1, so can play a bit of an action denial/blocking game, if needed. But they all shoot at skill 9, and it's a 98 point list, giving you initiative almost all the time (if you want it), so...can deal with the worst of the Phantom shens. Obviously, Vader should generally turtle when the enemy can shoot him (focus + evade), as losing him would be very bad for the list. When he's on the offensive, he should TL + focus, and make sure he lets Vessery shoot before him so Vessery can immediately gain the benefit of Vader's TL (generally the TIE Defenders otherwise just 'focus' every turn, as you do).

All theorycrafting, here, but when I was kicking around the idea of a dual-Defender list, the options available to this list seemed to be the best way to deal with the annoying Phantom meta...

with the upcoming rebel aces, you may spend those 2 points giving proton rockets to vader, if you don't mind risking yourself to lose initiative...

Do you ever run Defenders without Heavy Laser Cannons? Three dice doesn't seem that bad, and seven points is quite a lot.

I prefer not to. Because of the white K-turn, the defender is very good at creating space where the HLC can be most useful. With three agility an HCL on a defender is dominating at R3. I also face a lot of falcons.

For me, it maximizes its potential of an expensive fighter where I don't feel like I get quite enough for the basic cost. When I include a defender, those seven points are better spent making the defender more effective as opposed to trying to squeeze in another ship.

Do you ever run Defenders without Heavy Laser Cannons? Three dice doesn't seem that bad, and seven points is quite a lot.

What makes HLC so good is they don't get bonus dice at range three so it's four dice verses two agility for alot of rebel fighters and one for the big ships.

It's not cheap but four dice at all ranges plus the k turn it's a powerful combo.

But we have new cannons incoming with scrum so we may get something more powerful.

"Defenders shoot first"

Darth Vader (31)

TIE Advanced (29), Swarm Tactics (2)

Colonel Vessery (37)

TIE Defender (35), Swarm Tactics (2)

Delta Squadron Pilot (30)

You've got three pilots shooting at Skill 9, that way (Vader chains to Vessery who chains to the Delta pilot). And, interestingly, the TIE Advanced doesn't have much of a problem staying in range 1 of the Defenders - the Defender dial isn't actually much better than the Advanced (aside from that white K-turn, but Vader doesn't have to be facing the same way as the Defenders to stay in range 1 and provide the chained PS boost).

As a result, you've also got a Defender that moves + actions at skill-1, so can play a bit of an action denial/blocking game, if needed. But they all shoot at skill 9, and it's a 98 point list, giving you initiative almost all the time (if you want it), so...can deal with the worst of the Phantom shens. Obviously, Vader should generally turtle when the enemy can shoot him (focus + evade), as losing him would be very bad for the list. When he's on the offensive, he should TL + focus, and make sure he lets Vessery shoot before him so Vessery can immediately gain the benefit of Vader's TL (generally the TIE Defenders otherwise just 'focus' every turn, as you do).

All theorycrafting, here, but when I was kicking around the idea of a dual-Defender list, the options available to this list seemed to be the best way to deal with the annoying Phantom meta...

with the upcoming rebel aces, you may spend those 2 points giving proton rockets to vader, if you don't mind risking yourself to lose initiative...

A better choice would be if we eventually get an 'Imperial Aces 2' (or whatever) that gives us something like the Chaardan Refit for the TIE Advanced. Any discount on it, and you can then slap 'stealth device' on Vader, which is...useful in helping him survive (he's going to easily be the prime target in this list).

Yes, but that's not very helpful for making a list at the moment. Of course the list would be better if it had some extra points for a stealth device. What list wouldn't be?

I like the idea of this list, but I don't know if Vader is a better investment than another Defender. High PS is nice, but so is extra HP and attack die. How would this fare vs something like:

Vessery

Delta + Ion Cannon x 2?

Faster, better damage, more durable, and more control. You lose Vader's extra action and high PS, but is that worth the swap?

Yes, but that's not very helpful for making a list at the moment. Of course the list would be better if it had some extra points for a stealth device. What list wouldn't be?

I like the idea of this list, but I don't know if Vader is a better investment than another Defender. High PS is nice, but so is extra HP and attack die. How would this fare vs something like:

Vessery

Delta + Ion Cannon x 2?

Faster, better damage, more durable, and more control. You lose Vader's extra action and high PS, but is that worth the swap?

A Defender has one HP more than Vader in printed stats, but can't evade. Vader can evade every turn (and still take another action). So he has one HP less in printed stats, but practically has +1 HP every single turn from his 'evade' token that the enemy can never knock down.

He's actually a LOT more durable than a TIE Defender.

As to 'high PS' - depends on your meta, I suppose. Against Han in Falcons, or Phantoms, "shooting first" may be the only time you get to shoot, so...YMMV.

vader + eu is one slippery ship..... but only rolls 2 dice. Proton rockets will be a big big gain to him. Outmaneuver works well on Vader too.

I might end up using this tonight:

Rexler

Heavy laser cannon + push the limit + stealth device

Black squadron pilot

Wingman

Black squadron pilot

Draw their fire

Dark curse (on decoy duty)

Stealth device

If I'm going through the trouble of fielding a costly defender, I might as well make sure it survives and fires as hard as humanly possible

Yes, but that's not very helpful for making a list at the moment. Of course the list would be better if it had some extra points for a stealth device. What list wouldn't be?

I like the idea of this list, but I don't know if Vader is a better investment than another Defender. High PS is nice, but so is extra HP and attack die. How would this fare vs something like:Vessery

Delta + Ion Cannon x 2?

Faster, better damage, more durable, and more control. You lose Vader's extra action and high PS, but is that worth the swap?

A Defender has one HP more than Vader in printed stats, but can't evade. Vader can evade every turn (and still take another action). So he has one HP less in printed stats, but practically has +1 HP every single turn from his 'evade' token that the enemy can never knock down.

He's actually a LOT more durable than a TIE Defender.

As to 'high PS' - depends on your meta, I suppose. Against Han in Falcons, or Phantoms, "shooting first" may be the only time you get to shoot, so...YMMV.

Sure, you're right about Vader I suppose. I generally prefer to go Focus/Target Lock to try and make sure his two dice do something. I still think I'd prefer a third defender, though it does certainly depend on your meta. We don't have a lot of Phantoms here so they don't worry me as much as, perhaps, they should. Han isn't a concern though, really. He's not going to one shot a Defender even if he rolls four crits at range one and the Defender wiffs on all rolls. You will be able to shoot back and do something to him.

My list was illegal though, so maybe instead I'd consider:

Vessery + EU

Delta x2

or

Delta + Ion x 3

Dots,

I like your list, but you might want to consider swapping Predator for PTL. Defenders aren't as able to clear stress as other ships and the reroll to guarentee hits will help you save Rexler's focus for his ability. I'd also swap Dark Curse for Backstabber as his extra die makes him a more threatening decoy. I would absolutely ignore Dark Curse + Stealth Device if facing this list. You could also drop this stealth device to upgrade one of the Black Squadron ties to Mauler. This isn't as easy a choice to dump hits on, but he'll also pack more a threat. He can punish people for focusing on Rex and that is essential to a top heavy list like this.

Whats the best 3 Defender list?

A)

3 x Alpha + Stealth/Hull Upgrade/Ion Cannon

B)

2 x Alpha

Vessery + Swarm Tactics + Stealth

C)

2 x Alpha

Vessery + Expose

D)

2 x Alpha

Vessery + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade

E)

2 x Onyx

Vessery + Veteran Instincts

F)

2 x Alpha

Rexler + Predator/Outm.

Whats the best 3 Defender list?

D)

2 x Alpha

Vessery + Veteran Instincts + Engine Upgrade

...

F)

2 x Alpha

Rexler + Predator/Outm.

Presuming you mean Delta instead of Alpha ( ), I'd do one of these two.

In the first list I'd substitute Adrenaline Rush for Veteran Instincts, though, since the jump from PS8 doesn't really cut it for me any more, and in the second list I'd definitely take Predator so as to maximize the number of chances you get to use Brath's pilot ability.

Dots,

I like your list, but you might want to consider swapping Predator for PTL. Defenders aren't as able to clear stress as other ships and the reroll to guarentee hits will help you save Rexler's focus for his ability. I'd also swap Dark Curse for Backstabber as his extra die makes him a more threatening decoy. I would absolutely ignore Dark Curse + Stealth Device if facing this list. You could also drop this stealth device to upgrade one of the Black Squadron ties to Mauler. This isn't as easy a choice to dump hits on, but he'll also pack more a threat. He can punish people for focusing on Rex and that is essential to a top heavy list like this.

Good call on the backstabber, I'll give it a shot. I'll still try PTL with a "wingman" ... wingman, lol. I know it could go horribly wrong, but I'll still risk it for my own education. As long as that Tie is alive to get rid of the stress (and I'll hopefully maneuver him cleverly enough to keep him that way a few rounds) then I'll be free to use PTL without any repercussions.

urks ... yes i meant DELTA of course ...

Had a fun fight tonight using two onyx and mercenary, focused everything on coran first turn and didn't land one hit his evade dice smoked they were so hot, so it turned into a hairy furball three on three against two headhunters and a b-wing.

Used my PS 3 to do some tactical blocking with the firespray making him slam two ships into it, mercenary killed one Hunter point blank and the defenders worked over the b-wing.

Even with no upgrades they can put on the hurt once you learn how to move them you can outfly anything and never pick up stress.

Well, I tried my Rexler with push the limit + HLC with a Tie + wingman... and it was wonderful! I used PTL 2/3 of the time that Rexler was in combat and dropped the stress every time thanks to his wingman. I could either target lock + focus or focus + barrel roll to correct angles without any problems!

Just thought of one.

Rexler with PtL and HLC 47

Yorr 24

Jonus with wingman 24

5 points of ordnance or upgrades for Yorr for flavor.

Just thought of one.

Rexler with PtL and HLC 47

Yorr 24

Jonus with wingman 24

5 points of ordnance or upgrades for Yorr for flavor.

My worry is that it will be easy for Yorr and Jonus to stick together, but not so much the Defender. Even the Range 1-2 leash on Yorr is going to be eaten up quickly when Brath starts flipping around in the knife fight or booming-and-zooming to pick up more HLC shots.

Actually, I've been flying Jonus and 2 defenders together enough now to keep them together. Yorr is mainly there as an opportunistic stress reliever. The range 1-2 is pretty good, especially in the beginning when it matters more.

Jonus can keep up long enough till after the first K-turn, and unless Rexler does multiple ones back to back, Jonus can be there. And if you happen to have Yorr on the other end of the K-turn, then you can get stress removed.

Ultimately it won't be a walk in the park to make it work, but Jonus is the actual wingman and Yorr is more of an insurance to give Rexler more options.