Ok ok XD

Golden rule! Fun first, rules second. The main essence of common sense I supose

As long as you're careful and fair. Rules aren't there to keep people from having fun they're to provide a shared level playing field to help keep things fair for everyone (or as fair as possible). A rule should be properly considered in this context before breaking it. Plus fun is subjective, not everyone at the table may consider breaking a rule for another player fun when they've spent the time and effort to play by the rules themselves...

You are right. I have both types of players, who really anoys if there is something unbalanced and the other ones that care 0% about balance.

Every game have its own solutions.

Ya, without getting preachy I've found that most arguments (or grumbles) at the table come from people when they feel like something isn't fair or is perceived as unfair. Balance isn't so much of an issue, at least not in my experience. In any case as a GM I tend to keep as close to the RAW as I can and save the Rule of Cool for really special occasions. I find that it's the box that make us the most creative because it gives us something to think out of, whereas knowing there really is no box makes us a bit lazy.

I'd say don't give them a limit on their starting experience. You want to encourage role playing different concepts by not giving them penalties for doing so. I think that the PC and the GM should work closely together on what they want for that character. Yes I agree that something like a lower brawn and half the HP make sense. Maybe though as an incentive you can give the player a chance to put an extra point in something else other than Brawn. Is the kid very cunning? Extra agile? A little more intelligent? The class is also going to be a big challenge because most 10 year olds aren't going to be respected enough for any particular career. A 10 year old bounty hunter? Definitely won't be part of the guild. Colonist might be the best class for a youngster, or even a scoundrel or Fringer. He could certainly be a pilot, but I doubt that any NPC would take him seriously until reputation starting getting around.

There are plenty of young kids in adventure movies, but I think the most memorable ones are the ones that hold their own against the adults. Who can forget Short Round's car getaway in Temple of Doom?

I say do what makes sense to you. Truthfully not changing any thing about the stats apart from normal character creation probably won't change things up much anyway. The starting stats represent average characters for those races, so it's not surprising that a child would have similar stats.

I posted on another thread on this and well, after much thought I think: This is the players character conceit and as such he should be the one who creates the character his way. The only input I feel I should be making would be to provide teh same thought, direction and discussion on this as I would any on my other players.

In other words, don't treat a player any different because his character concept is.

I would say Ezra looks quite competent to me. As long as the player can roleplay it, then no need to bring in special rules,

If I had to make special rules to gimp a character, then I probably should not allow that character in the first place.

Well it's going to depend on your game because EotE (and the rest) are based on the original films not the cartoons and each has they're own world "physics". Thats not to say the game can't have more cartoony physics but that you have to choose to make it that way.

To do what Ezra does in this clip would take a highly trained, professional acrobat as well as a long list of other skills and abilities. It's great for a cartoon but if you saw it in SW A New Hope you'd get that Jar Jar kind of feeling that it just doesn't fit. Like I said, you can have a game like this if you want but you should have the whole game like this not just the child PC.

If you instead choose to have the game like the original films then a child PC should have some actual mechanical disadvantages. They should also have some mechanical advantages as well but they should be along the lines what a child can do in a live action cinematic adventure film as opposed to a cartoon.

Edit: Having now seen the show it explains why Erza is able to do some of what we see. It's still cartoony but makes more sense.

wouldnt you just give them much less experience. i mean age is what "experience" comes from

i wouldnt want them to be equal to anakin one of the strongest jedi's ever, unless they are playing like child version of that force unleashed guy

wouldnt you just give them much less experience. i mean age is what "experience" comes from

i wouldnt want them to be equal to anakin one of the strongest jedi's ever, unless they are playing like child version of that force unleashed guy

But Anakin wasn't the strongest Jedi ever when he was introduced to the story. He was a kid who was a great pilot and had some streetwise skills.

Really, just build a character like normal and roleplay it as a child.

Make the character as normal. GM adds setback dice liberally. Done.

Beautifully simple answer. Love it.

Make the character as normal. GM adds setback dice liberally. Done.

Beautifully simple answer. Love it.

This works for me as well. I'd make sure though that the setbacks, and possibly Boosts, are consistant, likely I'd add them in at the initial build. This way the Player can have a better idea of their PCs capabilities beforehand.

For example: 1 Setback for Brawn rolls, 1 Boost to Agility (except Ranged Combat)...

I opt for adding no garbage house rules on top of the character and simply dictate that the player build and play the character respective the the limitations of a child. There is no need to introduce special rules to limit a characterwhen narrative elements do a far better job of that. For example, we all know a child character isn't going to be taken at face value. They aren't going to be able to make the same kinds of Negotiation checks that other characters could.But they are also going to be smaller and less noticeable than a 400 lb woolies, so there is a trade off. By simple building a lower Brawn character and (gasp) roleplaying te limitations they face (which could include limited situational modifiers to rolls), you are going to pull this off far more effectively than any BS house rule about 1's in all of your Characteristics and no thresholds.

It is worth noting though than the game should dictate the appropriateness of this concept. I was linked to this thread by a similar question for an AoR game. Simply put, I think, under normal circumstances, that a child soldier in AoR would be uncalled for. It's one thing to play a young Force user or a child thief, but the Rebellion would never let a child into their ranks.

I had a player who created her character as a 14-year old Twi'lek Driver. We didn't penalize her characteristics or skills. Her character was based on a "kid with a dream", to be the best pod racer in the galaxy. She was a hell of a mechanic and handy with a wrench (her melee weapon).

Since this thread was brought back up, I thought I'd throw my two credits in.

In general, I'm of the "no house rule to weaken a character" camp. If a player wants to play a child, they can through the character design and role playing choices they make. The GM can also use setback and boost dice to help the role play feel like a kid.

However, I would do house rules to weaken a charcter (to make the stats and skills reflect a less experienced child) if it was part of a limited adventure. I could see an introductory adventure where one or more of the characters are kids with reduced XP. After the short adventure fast forward a few years. The kid matured and now has access to full character creation XP and stats. Any adult characters could've been fluffed that they were doing the same old hum drum tasks day in and out and weren't growing as individuals. It would be like playing the prologue for the story.

An example would be where a smuggler crew stumbles upon an orphan and hijinks ensue. After the adventure, the orphan joins the smuggler crew to be raised as one of them. A couple years pass. The kids grows up and becomes one of the smugglers, this life experience grants the PC with starting XP. The smugglers hadn't had any hard missions during this time. They were effectively just punching the clock. Nothing out of the ordinary to grant them new experience. That is, until something happened to kick off the next adventure.

For those who want to limit how much starting XP a child has, how would you handle someone who wants to play an older character? Would they start with bonus XP because they had more life experience? If your party was Episode 1, how would you grant starting XP to the characters? Full starting XP to Obi-Wan and Amadala, half for Anakin, and double for Qui-Gon? If that's the case, then I'll always be playing the wise old mentor in your games because my fluffy background "needs" more XP.

I would say Ezra looks quite competent to me. As long as the player can roleplay it, then no need to bring in special rules,

If I had to make special rules to gimp a character, then I probably should not allow that character in the first place.

Well it's going to depend on your game because EotE (and the rest) are based on the original films not the cartoons and each has they're own world "physics". Thats not to say the game can't have more cartoony physics but that you have to choose to make it that way.

To do what Ezra does in this clip would take a highly trained, professional acrobat as well as a long list of other skills and abilities.

*Mr. Owl Voice* Lets find out.....

Human Smuggler-Thief/Exile....

2,3,2,3,2,2

Free Ranks in... Athletics, Coordination, Deception, Skulduggery, Stealth, Streetwise, Vigilance, Ranged Light

Talent: Uncanny Reactions

Equipment: Holdout Stun Blaster equivalent, Backpack

And I still got plenty XP left to spend... more if you count previous episodes... I know we gotta Enhance, with a possible control upgrade, but there's plenty of XP to do so...

Those base stats aren't impressive, but considering the guy he's up against is a solo minion he really doesn't need a whole lot...

The "Must penalize child PCs" trope is just a knee jerk. While a good GM will review and approve all characters before the game starts to avoid something silly like a Brawn 5 Marauder 5-year-old, giving them less XP or something like that isn't a good or necessary solution. The Solution is to have the player stat up something reasonable (like above) and then have NPCs treat that character like a child. While there's a lot of freedom that being a child allows (typically lower on the aggro meter, perhaps the occasional deception/charm boost for "cute" ect. ) There's lots of other problems that a PC will have simply because they are a minor.

-No official ID required for under age X means limited access to some areas, inability to prove who you say you are.

-Not allowed in "Dangerous" or "Adult" places.

-Typically can't carry a "real" weapon without getting a lot of attention.

-Typically can't buy anything "Dangerous"

to name just a few...

My favorite...

Player: I sneak around back. *Roll* Oh...um 2 fail and a despair.

GM: While trying to peer in the back window a large male form appears in the reflection. You spin around coming face to face with a large uniformed figure. 30 mins later he deposits you right where you belong.... School. The teacher asks about the unification under Shey Tapani... that'll be a moderate core worlds check.

Other Player: Well... once we figure out where he is at least it'll be easier to bust him out then that time he was put in juvie.....

Well it's going to depend on your game because EotE (and the rest) are based on the original films not the cartoons and each has they're own world "physics". Thats not to say the game can't have more cartoony physics but that you have to choose to make it that way.

To do what Ezra does in this clip would take a highly trained, professional acrobat as well as a long list of other skills and abilities.

*Mr. Owl Voice* Lets find out.....

Human Smuggler-Thief/Exile....

2,3,2,3,2,2

Free Ranks in... Athletics, Coordination, Deception, Skulduggery, Stealth, Streetwise, Vigilance, Ranged Light

Talent: Uncanny Reactions

Equipment: Holdout Stun Blaster equivalent, Backpack

And I still got plenty XP left to spend... more if you count previous episodes... I know we gotta Enhance, with a possible control upgrade, but there's plenty of XP to do so...

Those base stats aren't impressive, but considering the guy he's up against is a solo minion he really doesn't need a whole lot...

You should probably note the date of the comment which was earlier than the airing of the first episode, I was unaware of his Force abilities. Regardless my point still stands because it does depend on how you play your game. If it's "cartoony" then this is a good example of what a teenage Force using PC could be like but if you're playing in a Cinematic Realism setting like we see in the original films then not so much. In any case if a Player wanted to make a teenage PC I wouldn't penalize their Attributes but I would place some limits or require some re-skinning on what they choose as their Career.

The OP wasn't clear in their post but as to whether or not their game is Cartoony or Cinematic but they did say it was a 10 year old. The Erza reference, though useful, is not of a 10 year old. If you want to play an actual child, not a teenager, then you should expect some disadvantages on your Attributes and Skills. You're 10 years old after all, 30kg+- (70lbs), and in grade 4 or 5 (assuming they grow up on a world with an education system). The kid who played Anikin was 10 and all he had to do was say a few lines and pretend he was on a roller-coaster ride, I've seen trained dogs give a more convincing performance. This is what the Player wants to their PC to be based on, which is a pretty unconvincing argument to give them normal stats.

The OP wasn't clear in their post but as to whether or not their game is Cartoony or Cinematic but they did say it was a 10 year old. The Erza reference, though useful, is not of a 10 year old. If you want to play an actual child, not a teenager, then you should expect some disadvantages on your Attributes and Skills. You're 10 years old after all, 30kg+- (70lbs), and in grade 4 or 5 (assuming they grow up on a world with an education system). The kid who played Anikin was 10 and all he had to do was say a few lines and pretend he was on a roller-coaster ride, I've seen trained dogs give a more convincing performance. This is what the Player wants to their PC to be based on, which is a pretty unconvincing argument to give them normal stats.

Kicking the player in the nuts because Jake Loyd didn't give a convincing performance isn't really kosher though. Despite his size and weight the actual character of Anakin still did stuff like any other appropriately statted PC most likely from a piloting class.

If you wanted to make the argument he did something like exchange 10ish starting XP for Sil 0, I might be willing to negotiate. But I still say penalizing a young character simply because he is a young character doesn't really fly.

Kicking the player in the nuts because Jake Loyd didn't give a convincing performance isn't really kosher though. Despite his size and weight the actual character of Anakin still did stuff like any other appropriately statted PC most likely from a piloting class.

If you wanted to make the argument he did something like exchange 10ish starting XP for Sil 0, I might be willing to negotiate. But I still say penalizing a young character simply because he is a young character doesn't really fly.

Well, I'm not sure if choosing to play child in an adult game is the same as a swift one in the groin but I suppose your mileage may vary...

In any case the point I was making was that you are playing a child not a miniature adult, and children just aren't as good at, well nearly anything as an adult, or even as a teenager. Sure they can get into smaller spaces and whatever but to stat them the same as an adult PC is just unfair to the Players playing adults.

That said, if you are playing a game where all the PCs are Children then I may go a different way but that would require some more thought on how to balance combat against adult NPCs.

Sounds like we're just going back to "appropriately statted" as being the concern then. If a player wanted to play a kid with 4 or 5 Brawn to start I'd take issue too...

Anakin Skywalker, as a 10 year old human child, defeated a galaxy-renown podracer with a machine he cobbled together in his backyard. He was a Knight level Warrior: Starfighter Ace with the Extra Gear morality option. He doesnt need or require a "child's stats" nerf.

Likewise, any "Child prodigy" character should have access to the full build points of the race. Being a child should JUSTIFY the stats, not reduce hem.

Anakin Skywalker, as a 10 year old human child, defeated a galaxy-renown podracer with a machine he cobbled together in his backyard. He was a Knight level Warrior: Starfighter Ace with the Extra Gear morality option. He doesnt need or require a "child's stats" nerf.

Likewise, any "Child prodigy" character should have access to the full build points of the race. Being a child should JUSTIFY the stats, not reduce hem.

Children are not miniature adults and Anakin's "character", such as it was, basically had no understanding or control of anything that he did or that happened to him. He was a 10 year old in a world that made little or no sense to him and all the amazing thing that he "did" were accidents, just the Force pointing him the the right direction. It was all pure narrative that in a game wouldn't have required more than a roll or two, if that. Everything he did was just silly and was constantly pulling you out of the film; it was the result of a garbage script and sh*tty directing. Even if you go to other films where the kids act well and have a decent story and director, say The Golden Compass, Harry Potter (though they were all older then 10), or Hugo, they were capable of doing cool stuff but they were still children that had the limitations all children have.

It's not that you can't have an incredible 10 year old PC, it's just that you shouldn't make them as capable as an adult PC.

It's not that you can't have an incredible 10 year old PC, it's just that you shouldn't make them as capable as an adult PC.

I agree there should be restrictions for playing a child, the player should be (ideally) the deciding factor as to what those restrictions should or should not be.

If the GM does impose limits these should be no more than he would impose on any other player "playing the game" rather than building a character.

Keep in mind,, not only was anakin a knight level PC, so was Jar Jar, but Binks wasted all his points on getting 2+ ranks in every skill... so practically every roll he made was a fail with a triumpth/advantage.

If you want to make YOUR PC weaker than the others, that's your perogative. But telling me -my- child prodigy character has to take some arbitrary point reduction, specifically to keep him from playing with the rest of the group, is worthless and small minded.

Small minded? You mean like a 10 year old's underdeveloped and uneducated brain?

Or are you giving us an example of how you plan on playing said prodigy?

Well your argument is certainly child like, sort of "you can't tell me what to do!" I want it and I don't care if it's fair to the other players that my 10 year old "prodigy"* has the same stats as their adult heroic PCs. I want it, poopy head!

* a word a 10 year old could never grasp the meaning of because even if they knew the definition of it wouldn't have enough life experience to have any frame of reference to really understand it.

It's not that you can't have an incredible 10 year old PC, it's just that you shouldn't make them as capable as an adult PC.

Question for you, FG. I understand the want to limit a starting child character compared to a normal starting adult character. I agree that a 10 year old has half the life experience as a 20 year old. When a player wants to play a 40 year old war veteran, do you give them twice the starting experience? A 40 year old has had twice the life experience as a 20 year old.