I would like to allow my players to attach vibroknife as a bayonnet on their blaster rifles.

How would I go to implement this so that it would be "realistic" (not under or overpowered)? Also, should the knife be allowed to be modded separately from the rifle to make the bayonet more dangerous? Would the arrangement use hard points from the knife, the rifle, or both? How many? How would the knife's stats change when attached (I am thinking it should be possible to detach a baynet to be used as a regular vibroknife)? I assume stabbing someone with bayonet is more damaging than stabbing him with a plain knife.

What I am basically looking for is someone's (preferably playtested) ideas about the matter.

Thanks,

//B3NDR

I'd take up a HP on the rifle. Don't see any issue with modding the vibroknife itself personally. The knife's stats wouldn't change imo on the rifle, I would probably just say the player can transition to a melee attack without using even an incidental when they are engaged. A bayonet is just a heavy bladed knife, not really any different from just a 6 to 8 inch camping knife, it is just full tang with a means to clamp to a lug on a rifle.

I'd take up a HP on the rifle. Don't see any issue with modding the vibroknife itself personally. The knife's stats wouldn't change imo on the rifle, I would probably just say the player can transition to a melee attack without using even an incidental when they are engaged. A bayonet is just a heavy bladed knife, not really any different from just a 6 to 8 inch camping knife, it is just full tang with a means to clamp to a lug on a rifle.

This is exactly what I would do as well. Most rifles are painful so this may encourage the player to switch to a mechanically inferior weapon for effect. Which is a good thing in my book.

Yes, a bayonet would, mechanically speaking, just permit a character to make melee attacks without putting down his rifle. He could shoot or stab each round as he sees fit without changing his weapon.

And yes, installing a bayonet should use up a hard point on the rifle.

However, if you're also going to treat the bayonet as its own weapon that can be modified independently, then you might also want to rule that being attachable as a bayonet also uses up a hard point on the knife.

i.e. Modifying a rifle to take a bayonet uses one hard point on the rifle and modifying a knife to be useable as a bayonet uses one hard point on the knife - one hard point each.

I think that's fair.

Bayonet fighting makes use to of the whole riffle not just the bayonette. The riffles butstock to your head is just as deadly as a dagger to the gut. For this reason I would allow either a boost die to the roll and 1 mele deffence as the rifle is also used to deflect mele attacks. That is just my oppinion though based off the limited bayonet fighting I did in basic training.

Modifying a rifle to take a bayonet uses one hard point on the rifle and modifying a knife to be useable as a bayonet uses one hard point on the knife - one hard point each.

Personally... I'd also add +1 Damage, but that's my "realism" side talking and can be safely ignored.

Hmm was thinking about this recently due to looking at designing the siang lance or at least a variation thereof for a Jedi hunter character I have an idea for based on the Kilian ranger concept. Good ideas.

What about adjusting the damage to Brawn +2 while attached? So it falls between the vibroknife and vibrospear. Or maybe make that an upgrade to the attachment.

Think of a bayonet on a rifle is effectively a spear. So treat it as such. You get reach and a little more damage because the attacks have more weight behind them than a knife.

Bayonet fighting is very watered down spear fighting.

I actually statted one of these with a player. We didn't mod the vibroknife, but created a mount attachment for the rifle itself:

Vibrobayonet Mount

Designed to allow for the mounting of a Vibroknife on Rifle or Carbine (Ranged Heavy) weapons by adding additional power systems and reinforcing the firearm for use as a 2-handed melee weapon.

Base Modifiers: Increase Weapons Cumbersome rating by 1, allows for attachment of Vibrobayonets.

Modification Options: 1x Reduce Cumbersome 1 mod

Hard Points Required: 2

Price: 700 credits

2 hard points and 700 credits seems excessive. If you look at real bayonet mounts you'd hardly know they were there.

How about a Bayonet attachment for certain appropriate melee weapons (I'm thinking Combat Knife, Vibroknife, maybe Stun Club or some other bludgeoning weapon?). It should cost no more than 1 hardpoint, maybe 0 (especially if you do it on a Combat Knife). This allows it to be attached as a bayonet. Then, a Bayonet mount attachment, costing 1 hp, usable on any rifle-sized weapon. When mounted, it increases Cumbersome by 1, (if, somehow, both weapons have Cumbersome, add both values), and then put in a reduce Cumbersome by 1 mod, and an increase damage by 1 mod (when using the mounted bayonet only). Not sure for a price though, I'm bad at pricing.

I actually statted one of these with a player. We didn't mod the vibroknife, but created a mount attachment for the rifle itself:

Vibrobayonet Mount

Designed to allow for the mounting of a Vibroknife on Rifle or Carbine (Ranged Heavy) weapons by adding additional power systems and reinforcing the firearm for use as a 2-handed melee weapon.

Base Modifiers: Increase Weapons Cumbersome rating by 1, allows for attachment of Vibrobayonets.

Modification Options: 1x Reduce Cumbersome 1 mod

Hard Points Required: 2

Price: 700 credits

I like this, but it feels a bit expensive, especially since, as written, it's just the mount and not the knife.

I actually statted one of these with a player. We didn't mod the vibroknife, but created a mount attachment for the rifle itself:

Vibrobayonet Mount

Designed to allow for the mounting of a Vibroknife on Rifle or Carbine (Ranged Heavy) weapons by adding additional power systems and reinforcing the firearm for use as a 2-handed melee weapon.

Base Modifiers: Increase Weapons Cumbersome rating by 1, allows for attachment of Vibrobayonets.

Modification Options: 1x Reduce Cumbersome 1 mod

Hard Points Required: 2

Price: 700 credits

I like this, but it feels a bit expensive, especially since, as written, it's just the mount and not the knife.

2 HP seems like a bit much, too. A bayonet lug is pretty simple. 2 HP would also preclude it from being attached to a slugthrower which, IMO, is the weapon for which a bayonet makes the most sense.

2 HP seems like a bit much, too. A bayonet lug is pretty simple.

I think I understand the why of it, but I do agree with you. It's either use a Hard Point from the gun and one from the knife, or use two from the gun, and most guns have more HP to spare.

I'd go with one HP on the gun and one on the knife, myself, except that a combat knife doesn't even have one HP.

(Then again, they did call it a vibro-bayonet mount.)

2 HP seems like a bit much, too. A bayonet lug is pretty simple.

I think I understand the why of it, but I do agree with you. It's either use a Hard Point from the gun and one from the knife, or use two from the gun, and most guns have more HP to spare.

I'd go with one HP on the gun and one on the knife, myself, except that a combat knife doesn't even have one HP.

(Then again, they did call it a vibro-bayonet mount.)

I guess you can always homebrew a regular bayonet weapon. Same stats as the combat knife but with 1 HP and more expensive.

How about this?

Vibro-bayonet

A vibro-bayonet that can be mounted on Ranged [Heavy] rifles and carbines. When mounted, the Cumbersome rating of the gun to which it is attached is increased by 1, and may be used as a two-handed melee weapon with the following stats: Vibro-bayonet [Melee, Damage: +2, Range: Engaged, Crit: 2, HP: 1, Rarity: 4, Pierce 2, Vicious 1, Inaccurate 1]. Unmounted, the vibro-bayonet may be used as a vibroknife with that weapon's stats.

Base Modifier: Increase weapon's Cumbersome rating by 1.

Modification Options: 1 Decrease Cumbersome mod. 1 Accurate mod.

Hard Points Required: 1

Cost: 500 credits

still a bit pricey. You can get one today for a rifle for about 60 bucks. otherwise good.

still a bit pricey. You can get one today for a rifle for about 60 bucks. otherwise good.

A regular vibroknife is 250. Realistically it shouldn't be much more, but it provides enough extra functionality that I think it's probably justified. Maybe it could be a little cheaper, but I wouldn't go too low.

After thinking it over, I think it's way too gimped compared to backing up and shooting. A vibrobayonet is supposed to be an alternative to using a maneuver to disengage and shoot.

Vibrobayonet: A vibrobayonet that can be affixed to Ranged [Heavy] weapons. When affixed, add Cumbersome 1 to the weapon affixed to. When firing the weapon with the vibrobayonet affixed, add Inaccurate 1. Affix as a maneuver. 300 credits.

Vibrobayonet (unaffixed) [Melee, Damage: +1, Range: Engaged, Crit: 2, HP: 1, Rarity: 4, Pierce 2, Vicious 1].

And to attach it:

Vibrobayonet Lug: Allows the attachment of vibrobayonets to a Ranged [Heavy] weapon. 1 HP. 100 credits.

Vibro-bayonet (affixed) [Melee, Damage: +1, Range: Engaged, Crit: 2, HP: 1, Rarity: 4, Pierce 2, Vicious 1, Defensive 1, Cumbersome X].

X being the weapon's cumbersome rating with the vibrobayonet attached; eg on a Slugthrower (Cumbersome 2 by default) this would be 3.

And for the sake of argument in favor of Defensive and against Inaccurate for vibrobayonet attacks:

2 HP seems like a bit much, too. A bayonet lug is pretty simple.

I think I understand the why of it, but I do agree with you. It's either use a Hard Point from the gun and one from the knife, or use two from the gun, and most guns have more HP to spare.

I'd go with one HP on the gun and one on the knife, myself, except that a combat knife doesn't even have one HP.

(Then again, they did call it a vibro-bayonet mount.)

Sorry yeah, the idea was purely for the mount attachment. 2 HP may be 1 too many, but it's meant to be all-encompassing and not take away from the stats of the actual knife. Idea being once the mount is there, the bayonet can simply be mounted or dismounted. It might have made more sense if I added our stats for the vibrobayonet as well . Here's the whole thing:

Attachment: Vibrobayonet Mount:

Designed to allow for the mounting of Vibrobayonets on Rifle or Carbine (Ranged Heavy) weapons by adding additional power systems and reinforcing the firearm for use as a 2-handed melee weapon.

Base Modifiers: Increase Weapons Cumbersome rating by 1, allows for attachment of Vibrobayonets.

Modification Options: 1x Reduce Cumbersome 1 mod

Hard Points Required: 2

Price: 700 credits

Vibrobayonet

Skill: Melee

Dam: +1

Crit: 3

Range: Engaged

Encum: 1

HP: 2

Price: 200

Rarity: 5

Special: Pierce 1, Vicious 1

Mounted Vibrobayonet

Skill: Melee

Dam: +1

Crit: 2

Range: Engaged

Encum: Weapon +1

HP: 2

Price: 200

Rarity: 5

Special: Pierce 1, Vicious 1, Defensive 1, Cumbersome (as per weapon)

After thinking it over, I think it's way too gimped compared to backing up and shooting. A vibrobayonet is supposed to be an alternative to using a maneuver to disengage and shoot.

Vibrobayonet: A vibrobayonet that can be affixed to Ranged [Heavy] weapons. When affixed, add Cumbersome 1 to the weapon affixed to. When firing the weapon with the vibrobayonet affixed, add Inaccurate 1. Affix as a maneuver. 300 credits.

Vibrobayonet (unaffixed) [Melee, Damage: +2 , Range: Engaged, Crit: 2, HP: 1, Rarity: 4, Pierce 2, Vicious 1].

And to attach it:

Vibrobayonet Lug: Allows the attachment of vibrobayonets to a Ranged [Heavy] weapon. 1 HP. 100 credits.

Vibro-bayonet (affixed) [Melee, Damage: +2, Range: Engaged, Crit: 2, HP: 1, Rarity: 4, Pierce 2, Vicious 1, Defensive 1, Cumbersome X].

X being the weapon's cumbersome rating with the vibrobayonet attached; eg on a Slugthrower (Cumbersome 2 by default) this would be 3.

So your bayonet does as much damage unaffixed as affixed, and as much damage in both cases as a vibrosword? That seems a bit much.

also bayonetts do not effect the accuracy of a weapon.

also bayonetts do not effect the accuracy of a weapon.

Just to be a devil's advocate: bayonet should actually increase the accuracy. It adds mass (i.e. inertia) at the tip of a rifle which makes it less shaky which leads to the rifle being more accurate.

//B3NDR.

also bayonetts do not effect the accuracy of a weapon.

Agreed. I had Inaccurate added for when the rifle is used like a melee weapon with the bayonet attached largely because it becomes more like an improvised weapon that way - a little unwieldy.