Income: Where is it from and what does the PC do when they're not investigating?

By Friend of the Dork, in Dark Heresy

Hey, an issue has been brought up in our group a few times, namely income. The table is fairly clear (except maybe for scum), but what exactly sets the PCs income? Scum gets theirs from illegal activity, and probably have no work except for the inquisiton, where he might not even be paid for it. I give them a stipendium from the Inquisitor in my game, but it seems optional..

But how about the other classes?

Guardsmen: Recieve income from the Imperial Guards, or merc pay. I can't really see why Penal Legionaires should recieve any income at all, except lodging and food enough to survive until their next suicidal battle. But do these classes recieve any income if they're currently in the Warp for 3 months while on a Inquisitorial mission? How does the Inquisition ensure that the classes are available without giving away info that they are connected to the Inqusition?

Cleric: Their substantial pay is probably from tithes to the Imperial Cult, and maybe from Indulgences (not sure if this is canon, but it sure fits the bill!). Their work for the Inquisition is surely out of conviction (or lust for power, or as a debt to an Inquisitor). But should these recieve pay regardless of their activity or only in downtime while they actually "work" for the Ecclesiarchy?

Tech Priest: I picture their income model much the same as Clerics, but not so high. Selling tech is probably for Hereteks, and while the Adeptus Mechanicus probably lease their services for wealth and spiritual offerings, the income probably goes to the cult itself.

Assassin: Unless state sponsored, these murderous bastards would probably get income directly from their employer? If so, the income must be an average, and killing people with precision and stealth takes time. Organizations may have steady pay though, but still will they allow their members to go for months without killing people (for pay)?

Adepts: Probably the hardest class to justify payment during extended leaves. Being part of some Administratum, I'm fairly sure they don't get a throne more than they're supposed to. And since these probably have something akin to an 8-4 work day, running around on adventure is a bit far fetched itself, so alot of cover missions has to be made.

Arbitrators: These men may, at least at higher ranks, have some freedom in what they do, where they go etc., but still they probably have pay just like the Adepts, so the same difficulty comes into play.

Psykers: I have no idea what they actually do. Some may be in the Guards, but what they actually do after they graduate from Scholastika Psykana is not really clear. Many have the soothsaying trade skill, but so can people without powers. Do they receive upkeep somehow?

Nobles: The hardest group, and we have one in our party. Extended downtime and even travel could make such a PC incredibly rich very quickly. Now, I have no problems with Nobles having alot of property, but these sums of cash from doing nothing doesen't really work as a reward. So far I've handled it by allowing only x months of downtime between missions, regardless of the time spent on mission and actual time passed, but how realistic is this for someone with steady property income or even a generous allowance?

Does the Inquisition itself control any aspect of the acolytes' income?

Pay vs cost: Upkeep. How much of the acolytes' incomes are spent on upkeep (housing, food etc). during downtime? Or does the income represent what they acolytes can save each month without risking death? If so, Scum seems to do very well, and the desperate criminal activity not so important anyway. So far, I've ignored upkeep costs except during adventures, and assumed that the ones that require it get it from the Inquisitor. Easy, but doesen't fit well with the "you work for living, you live for the Inquisition" idea. During missions PCs have to beg, steal, loot or just spend their saving to get by, and although I've tweaked living expenses and service cost quite a bit (they obviously makes no sense), they seldom get any funds from their Inquisitor for this purpose, as he assumes they make enough from their work for this purpose. Some classes, unless retired or acting as reserves, should have bread and lodging at least from their unit (Guardsmen or maybe arbitrators).

And at the last of this lenghty post: What about trade skills? May the acolytes instead recieving their normal pay instead use their trade skills (if any) to recieve higher pay?If so, income for adepts and psykers (at the least) is fairly irrelevant if they can get more by being soothsayers or merchants (not really sure why the latter is one of the choises).

So any easy, balanced and believable way of doing this?

Friend of the Dork said:

So any easy, balanced and believable way of doing this?

For me, basically ignore it. Assume the PCs have enough money for food, lodging, basic reloads, minor bribes and other day to day expenses. Use the income tables as guidelines for how much money a character might/should have over and above this basic expenses to buy extra gear, nice meals, etc. if they were working a regular job at their career. However, I assume that the PCs are not working "day jobs" between adventures but rather are full time agents of the Holy Ordos (or whomever their patrons might be) and receive their support directly from their patron.

The income table is what the characters get when they're on and between missions. Barring anything they find or do on the mission itself(keeping funds found on a banking card to themselves, etc) and any bonuses the inquisition gives them. So each month of 'work' and even 'mission months' are paid out in full. Don't bothering with housing and upkeep unless they're really living above their standards, most classes earn jack-all anyway and there's no need to put the hurt on them further.

As for justifying what the acolytes actually do to earn their money? How about you let them as the players come up with that? In the end, its not really that important.

It's quite different in the two groups im in (play one and run one).

Group A are fed and watered by the =][=, they ask for stuff on a mission by mission basis, and they Might receive it, if they fill out all the forms and can justify the need for it. Pay wise, they dont get anything oter than what the boss gives them.

Group B however still receive the additional money, keeping them "on the system" when it comes to them having to use their real identities for travel and work.

The techpriest has a tendancy to "over spend" his wages, which means he gets to owe some powerful people some favours, the assassin makes hers through "DT jobs" and has quite a bit stashed in the bank.

Once in a while they're required to make an Upkeep payment, so that all their gear is kept in good condition, armour is repaired, basic ammo replaced and the like, a bit like the SOTA rule in Shadowrun.

Last game they received a pay off from the Big Bad in cold hard cash, tax free and untracable, and the first thing they done was dance around singing "we got money!!!" before the assassin went to a night market for a new dress and the techpriest went to pay off some debts.

Having personal money means they get to have some story lines about getting in to debt and having to hide things from their boss such as possible hereteknology or some fake id's that they picked up off of a goon. Makes a bit more down and dirty for the players, they start having secrets like drug addiction and the like from eachother and actualyl develop as People rather than stats on a sheet for us.

Oh, and dont forget that anyone with a Trade skill can make some extra thrones as well per month per skill, i dont have the book to hand but i think its mentioned in a side bar in the skills section, or even in the actual chapter about money & gear...

Guardsmen: Recieve income from the Imperial Guards, or merc pay. I can't really see why Penal Legionaires should recieve any income at all, except lodging and food enough to survive until their next suicidal battle. But do these classes recieve any income if they're currently in the Warp for 3 months while on a Inquisitorial mission? How does the Inquisition ensure that the classes are available without giving away info that they are connected to the Inqusition?

That depends on your take of the group. If they're full-time agents, the inquisitor would likely pay them what their official profession would grant so they can live without drawing attention to themselves. If they are summoned once in a few months, the inquisitor will likely have had a few words with their superiors (or their superiors' superiors) - the Imperium is strictly hierarchical, meaning you'll always have someone higher-up who can make the acolytes disappear from the paperwork. Finally there might be acolytes who have a more tenous connection to the inquisition - more informants than active agents - and who would be required to simply continue working their day jobs and do the inquisitorial stuff in their free time. Most PC cells will likely fall into categories one or two.

Cleric, Tech Priest, Assassin, Adepts, Arbitrators:

These classes present no problem using the model above.

Psykers: I have no idea what they actually do. Some may be in the Guards, but what they actually do after they graduate from Scholastika Psykana is not really clear. Many have the soothsaying trade skill, but so can people without powers. Do they receive upkeep somehow?

Same as the above. Psykers are usually specialists in service to either the Imperial Guard or another powerful group like a Chartist trader, a noble house, a planetary governor or someone else who can afford getting one.

Nobles: The hardest group, and we have one in our party. Extended downtime and even travel could make such a PC incredibly rich very quickly. Now, I have no problems with Nobles having alot of property, but these sums of cash from doing nothing doesen't really work as a reward. So far I've handled it by allowing only x months of downtime between missions, regardless of the time spent on mission and actual time passed, but how realistic is this for someone with steady property income or even a generous allowance?

Just allow the nobles their income. It's their most important homeworld feature. How many months of downtime do your campaigns usually entail?

Does the Inquisition itself control any aspect of the acolytes' income?

Depends on the cell's type, as stated above.

Pay vs cost: Upkeep. How much of the acolytes' incomes are spent on upkeep (housing, food etc). during downtime? Or does the income represent what they acolytes can save each month without risking death? If so, Scum seems to do very well, and the desperate criminal activity not so important anyway. So far, I've ignored upkeep costs except during adventures, and assumed that the ones that require it get it from the Inquisitor. Easy, but doesen't fit well with the "you work for living, you live for the Inquisition" idea. During missions PCs have to beg, steal, loot or just spend their saving to get by, and although I've tweaked living expenses and service cost quite a bit (they obviously makes no sense), they seldom get any funds from their Inquisitor for this purpose, as he assumes they make enough from their work for this purpose. Some classes, unless retired or acting as reserves, should have bread and lodging at least from their unit (Guardsmen or maybe arbitrators).

Just for the fun of it: Calculate what the price for poor accomodation and two meals per day would be for one month. Then ask that question again.

So any easy, balanced and believable way of doing this?

Yes: Grant the PCs the money their income says they should get. Believe me, there's no way to unbalance DH by giving too much money.

Friend of the Dork said:

Hey, an issue has been brought up in our group a few times, namely income. The table is fairly clear (except maybe for scum), but what exactly sets the PCs income? Scum gets theirs from illegal activity, and probably have no work except for the inquisiton, where he might not even be paid for it. I give them a stipendium from the Inquisitor in my game, but it seems optional..

Well, in my view and in my campaign the characters are paid their wages by the respective organization they are (or were originally) part of. So, the Guardsman is paid by the Imperial Guard / Departmento Munitorum, the Arbitartor is paid by the Adeptus Arbites, the Tech-Priest by the Adeptus Mechanicus, the Cleric by the Adeptus Ministorum, the Psyker by the Adeptus Astra Telepathica or any organization (s)he worked for (Guard, Navy, Administratum, local gouvernment, noble house, trading guild, etc.), the Adept by the Administratum and so on. The Assassin is paid by his/her employer in an abstract way, as is the Scum more or less. The power of the Inquisition is that with starting to work for the Ordos, the Acolytes are taken from their respective organization and exempted from the duty to perform in their respective organization. The Acolytes are sort of borrowed by the Inquisitor as long as they are needed (with the exception of Assassin and Scum, who still perform their activites while (or through) working for the Inquistion)...

All of my players are equipped with credit card type things; called throne cards. Ours have an unlimited amount of gelt on them, but are equipped with an inbuilt chrono that will incinerate the card if tampered with, when a month has passed, it unlocks the acolytes wages.

In my game, everyone but the noble get their pay from the Inquisition, deposited in the Guild Bank of one of the Navigator Houses (specifically, in their Scintilla compound), so if they want their cash they have to go to one of the Navigator enclaves and withdraw an amount in local currency (I treat the Throne as an 'imaginary' exchange currency, with no existence outside the ledgers of the Administratum). If the Inquisition sends them to a particular planet, their wages will be directed to be deposited at that planet's enclave. If they choose to go to another world on their own initiative- they'll have to arrange for the funds they expect to need to be forwarded to that planet ahead of time, or else they'll have to have to pay a ruinous astropathic service charge to get to their cash.

The Noble works slightly differently- I treat his income as the expendable profit from his holdings, and since his starting holdings included a sprint trader with an Ecclesiarchal charter, he has to spend some time every now and then in consultation with the ship's captain, and its' master purser, arranging for them to find a profitable cargo for wherever they (the party) have to go, and to arrange for docking fees and upkeep to be paid while the PCs work a particular mission. Of course, he had to murder (rather clumsily) a family member to get control of said ship, so certain branches of his family are going to be after him if the ship ever goes back to the Hazeroth Sub. And of course, while an Ecclesiarchy charter gives him the right to avoid certain unpleasant/annoying parts of imperial 'maritime' law (immunity from search and seizure by Navy vessels, unless observed in an act of piracy, the right to priority docking berths, immunity from customs searches (at least until the cargo is unloaded/transshipped- whoever has it then can be searched), and a limited letter of passage through lower level blockades), it also means that every so often the Ecclesiarchy is going to effectively commandeer their vessel. Whether or not they are on it, and whether or not they have orders from their Inquisitorial masters that would take them in the opposite direction...

If the PCs are paid by the Inquisition, why do they all get different amounts? You'd think that such a powerful organization would have it's own pay and stipend scales. The wages have to be what they earn on their own, otherwise, that's kinda' silly.

It wouldn't necessarily follow that they would all be paid the same- would you expect a starting janitor to earn the same as a starting sales exec? It makes sense that different roles would receive different levels of pay.

I'll admit that the variable levels of cash that the scum receives don't make sense unless it is the money he makes in his own time and of his own efforts (and, imho, doesn't make much sense anyway), but I can accept the others.

I'll also admit that every one of my current group of active players are all supine class or Noble, so they'd all get the same amount per month anyway.

I've always handled it as the PCs were detatched from their regular duties. The other option is they have some sort of cover which actively aids investigations.

The guardsman for example is attached to a rear echelon command group. He has a baracks to sleep, get meals, and gets standard pay. When he pleased his boss after a mission he was promoted to officer's rank. Which gave him private quarters , and a desk. He doesn't have duty ouside the his missions for the =][=. He basically goes on a bender for weeks after a mission until his money runs out. Then he stays at base. Training, or performing spot inspections of the guard or pdf. In theory he is detailed with special inspection duties, but his commanding officer actively avoids having the slightest idea what he does.

The adept on the other hand has a job as basically a filing clerk with the sector government. As a result he has access to records for the entire sector. He boss is an eccentric, and slightly senile adept who rarely gives him any work. The adept spends his days researching the descendants of a defunct noble house under Inquisitor orders. (Which became vital later in the campaign.)

The scum is a fence in his off time, and on occasion is bailed out of the local jail by the Arbiter. Who is assigned to a non-existant investigation. He hangs out at the arbiter fortress training, and doing his own investigations. The assassin either attempts to sell out his loot via the scum, go on drinking binges with the guardsman, or prays for forgiveness of his evil ways with the monks...

As far as what to spend money on? Why do you care? This isn't D&D money doesn't matter. Just keep the insanely rare stuff like lathe blades, force weapons, and the like simply unavailable. (Unless the do something to impress the =][=, or the tech priests.) Blessed gear isn't handed out to the non pious. So a task to prove their worth might be in order. They want power armor sure. They can't wear it on investigations, you can't easily lug it around, and who has time to stop run go get it out of storage and put it on. Heavy weapons are the same. Lug around a man portable lascannon? Show them the pictures here:
http://kofler.dot.at/40k/guard_units.html
Can they lug that around? Wouldn't the local call the cops or the pdf if they see it.

There are very few items that are game changers. Bolt weapons with the errata are impressive, but carrying around a bolt weapon is basically screaming we are really really rich, and connected!!! People will be trying to either steal it or run the other way. Sure you could conceal a bolt pistol, but ammo run out quick on the pistols. A boltgun is a massive rifle which you can't hide. On the other hand there are some great buys in the IH. The camo armored body glove, some of the battle drugs, a few tech items and a couple of weapons. Let them buy what ever they want within reason. It doesn't matter that much. Besides sooner or later they will get shot down and have to abandon their gear any way right?

My Arbitrator is currently using a .54 Tranter from the IH, it's as lethal as a bolt pistol but unreliable, I'm not fussed, it dosn't scream "WEALTH" and it gets the job done :P

I gave my players a monthly wage of 600 thrones each irrespective of rank or former career. I took one look at the wage rules and discarded them. It was too much like WFRP in that the economics just DIDNT work. Example being that the average monthly wage for a hab worker is 20 thrones and the average meal is 1 throne........so does he only have 20 meals? any housing costs in that? I dont think so. Its broken. IMHO just ignore it.

Inqusitorial agents are like MI5 agents (anyone seen spooks?) . As soon as they are employed by the big =][= then they effectively stop their old careers. The still get to keep the contacts they have but like any spy they have to come up with a cover story to explain their new "activities". Its seems faintly silly to me that they should be stopping galactic apocolypse AND still have a day job.

Giving everyone the same wage actually was an rp element in itself. The noble bitched about "how could anyone live like this!" whereas the soldier and scum went positively nuts and went out on a bender and got smashed and bought shiny new clothes.

Hmm alot of varying answers here. So far the conclusion I've come to is:

1. Acolyte income is from his profession, not the Inquisition.

2. The Ecconomic system in DH is screwed up (no suprise there). I just looked at the price for medical services... even a Noble is hard pressed to get a Physiscian's services, especially considering it may cost 500 thrones PER DAY! i can't really see how any one person can pay that for any length of time. It's equivalent for having treatment costing millions of dollars every day, for even basic wounds. Those prices divided by 10 may be ok.

3. Alot of GMs like to handwave upkeep costs and let the acolytes spend their income on toys and the occasional overpriced lodging during an adventure.

4. Mo money mo problems. Yeah, tell that to the scum and laborers that dies of hunger or other pressing needs.

However there are still things that are fussy IMO. According to the DH rulebook, income is either personal, or from the inquisitor, wwithout it specifying which profession gets what, and confuse it further by saying the Inq. can halt the money if they are displeased. Sure, they have the power, but in the case of personal income (say a Nobles' holdings), they should be hard pressed to do so without overt means (declaring the noble house heretics), and I can't really see why they would do so unless the Acolyte in question actually betrayed the Inquisition.

But for those that say that unlike D&D money doesent matter: What are you smoking? Of course it matters wether the Acolytes can afford a single laspistol or a best quality boltgun with limitless ammo. Equipment and power is directly related in this game, and if they get too much dough, too quickly it will matter alot.

Heck, when my Acolytes were on a feudal world without their modern toys, they actually surrendered when they encountered 10 musket-armed enemies with an officer, and I doubt they would have if they had flak armor and guns.

As far as I can tell, they point of the income system is to balance what each profession gets in terms of gear. Clerics and Tech Priests may not be as good fighters as Guardsmen and Scum, but they get tons of cash to balance it out. Some are of course not meant for balance but rather imbalance, to represent the fact that it's an unfair world and PCs from different vocations have different wealth.

Im considering letting the PCs keep their standard income, and then have the Inquisition pay for their upkeep when they're not on adventure. The income advance represents how their Inquisitorial wages rise.

My thoughts on this are that the DH income rules actually bear little relation to the feudal nature of the Imperium, and the overwhelming power of the Inquiaition.

The basic rule should be: If an Inquisitor wants it done, it gets done. Thus, if an Inquisitor wants to construct a vast Black Fortress on an Imperial World, he orders the planetary governor to build it for him. If an Inquisitor thinks Sergeant Smith of the Maccabean IVth would make a good acolyte, he orders the Sergeant to join him. Everything else follows from there.

My reading would be that the starting sums of thrones available are an indicator of what is owing to the players for the first 3-4 months of wages, until the slow bureacracy of the Imperium realises that Sergeant Smith is no longer working for the guard and stops his pay. Thereafter, the players get whatever they need from the Inquisition to get the job done.

Look at the Ravenor books: his acolytes are NEVER short of cash and have acces to wehatever weapons and equipment they want.

It's wrong to think of money coming to the players as a SALARY. The Inquisition isn't Starbucks: they just order people to serve them (effectively as indentured serfs) and shoot them if they refuse.

Ordo Hydra said:

I took one look at the wage rules and discarded them. It was too much like WFRP in that the economics just DIDNT work.

Sort of thinking if I manage to TPK everyone off, I'll start from scratch and give an acolyte stipend being a flat rate across the board of around 100-120TG per rank. Characters like nobles and so on might get some more, but I fully expect the others to come up with their own dodgy ways of making a few extra quid on the side while maintaining their cover. I have a great deal of trouble trying to get anyone to play a scum since they're always so **** broke its not funny, but their underworld knowledge and comparative inconspicuous existance is invaluable. Probably come up with a stop-gap measure at some point to fill the void.

Lightbringer said:

My thoughts on this are that the DH income rules actually bear little relation to the feudal nature of the Imperium, and the overwhelming power of the Inquiaition.

The basic rule should be: If an Inquisitor wants it done, it gets done. Thus, if an Inquisitor wants to construct a vast Black Fortress on an Imperial World, he orders the planetary governor to build it for him. If an Inquisitor thinks Sergeant Smith of the Maccabean IVth would make a good acolyte, he orders the Sergeant to join him. Everything else follows from there.

My reading would be that the starting sums of thrones available are an indicator of what is owing to the players for the first 3-4 months of wages, until the slow bureacracy of the Imperium realises that Sergeant Smith is no longer working for the guard and stops his pay. Thereafter, the players get whatever they need from the Inquisition to get the job done.

Look at the Ravenor books: his acolytes are NEVER short of cash and have acces to wehatever weapons and equipment they want.

It's wrong to think of money coming to the players as a SALARY. The Inquisition isn't Starbucks: they just order people to serve them (effectively as indentured serfs) and shoot them if they refuse.

I disagree about the way of the Inquisition. Yes, sure an Inquisitor has the power to do exactly what you said, but is usually smart enough not to, for two reasons:

1. An Inquisitor's work is secret and covert, and excessive spending or open commands from the Inquisition brings attention to it. The Inquisition has a alot of resources though, mostly hailing from the Imperial Tithe. Thus they can afford to pay for construction, informants, equipment and whatever else they need.

2. Sure, they can boss you around. But Serfs never do as good a job as one motivated by pay. Thus it pays off to actually treat people nicely (unless they are heretics), pay them what they deserve, and ask for favors. Only when these means fail do they use their power.

Acolytes are a different matter. Some are pressed into service, some are inspired to join out of free will, and some will be payed as well. It doesen't matter if the Inquisitor spends a few thrones each month to make sure that a recruited Scum has a steady income, but for the Acolyte it means alot. The Inquisition goes from being a dangerous chore to being a savior, which could mean that a usually cowardly thief could become a hero of the empire. People have fought and died for less.

Friend of the Dork said:

2. Sure, they can boss you around. But Serfs never do as good a job as one motivated by pay. Thus it pays off to actually treat people nicely (unless they are heretics), pay them what they deserve, and ask for favors. Only when these means fail do they use their power.

Acolytes are a different matter. Some are pressed into service, some are inspired to join out of free will, and some will be payed as well. It doesen't matter if the Inquisitor spends a few thrones each month to make sure that a recruited Scum has a steady income, but for the Acolyte it means alot. The Inquisition goes from being a dangerous chore to being a savior, which could mean that a usually cowardly thief could become a hero of the empire. People have fought and died for less.

I totally agree. Eventualy if you threaten people and force them to work for you then they can be easily turned or subverted....or failing that just leave. Sure the inquistion might catch up with you but since you have worked on the "inside" you could stay ahead of them. If there was no wage then the galaxy I'm sure would be full of dissaffected, treacherous, ex-acolytes........or at least far more than there are now.

Ordo Hydra said:

I totally agree. Eventualy if you threaten people and force them to work for you then they can be easily turned or subverted....or failing that just leave. Sure the inquistion might catch up with you but since you have worked on the "inside" you could stay ahead of them. If there was no wage then the galaxy I'm sure would be full of dissaffected, treacherous, ex-acolytes........or at least far more than there are now.

And to counter that argument, why would the inquisition trust acolytes who value material goods and property above their sacred duty enough for them to be able to easily skip out or know how to dodge the =][= for any great length of time? After all, if money is their main motivator, then it would be rather easy for the other side to by them out and their loyalty would always be suspect. Such an acolyte would be no better off in the inquisition then a conscripted penal legionnaire; low level cannon fodder to be used and tossed away when convenient.

If an Inquisitor provides his or her acolytes with what they need in order to preform their duties as the inquisitor sees fit, why should they want money (or more money in the cases where the inquisitor provides them with cash for work related expenses. Those that desire to do the Emperor's work (or just gain ungodly power by moving up the ranks of the inquisition) would be the ones who would gain the inquisitor's trust and the trust of his or her peer's, not the mercenary who's in it to earn a living.

Graver said:

Ordo Hydra said:

Eventualy if you threaten people and force them to work for you then they can be easily turned or subverted....or failing that just leave. Sure the inquistion might catch up with you but since you have worked on the "inside" you could stay ahead of them. If there was no wage then the galaxy I'm sure would be full of dissaffected, treacherous, ex-acolytes........or at least far more than there are now.

And to counter that argument, why would the inquisition trust acolytes who value material goods and property above their sacred duty enough for them to be able to easily skip out or know how to dodge the =][= for any great length of time? After all, if money is their main motivator, then it would be rather easy for the other side to by them out and their loyalty would always be suspect. Such an acolyte would be no better off in the inquisition then a conscripted penal legionnaire; low level cannon fodder to be used and tossed away when convenient.

If an Inquisitor provides his or her acolytes with what they need in order to preform their duties as the inquisitor sees fit, why should they want money (or more money in the cases where the inquisitor provides them with cash for work related expenses. Those that desire to do the Emperor's work (or just gain ungodly power by moving up the ranks of the inquisition) would be the ones who would gain the inquisitor's trust and the trust of his or her peer's, not the mercenary who's in it to earn a living.

Good points there. I just tend to think that the finance system is something of an afterthought, and that money isn't the focus of the game in the same way as it is in, for example, a game like Shadowrun. The Player character's aren't out to make a quick buck: they're there to serve their master. Who isn't out to make a quick buck either, and who effectively has all the resources in the galaxy.

If you read the Dan Abnett Eisenhorn/Ravenor books, the issue of money hardly ever crops up at all. The acolytes are from the same type of world as James Bond...money isn't THEIR problem, it's a problem for those outside their world. Money is another weapon or resource to use against the enemies of the Imperium.

In-game resources should come from roleplaying up the relationship betwen the PC and his Inquisitor master, not from rolling on income tables. If the Guardsman wants a shiny new lasgun with reflex sight and grenade launcher, he gets it by making a case for its purchase with his Inquisitor, not by slaying a few cultists, robbing their bodies and going to an interstellar version of AmmuNation...

[i totally agree. Eventualy if you threaten people and force them to work for you then they can be easily turned or subverted....or failing that just leave. Sure the inquistion might catch up with you but since you have worked on the "inside" you could stay ahead of them. If there was no wage then the galaxy I'm sure would be full of dissaffected, treacherous, ex-acolytes........or at least far more than there are now.]

Graver said:


Ordo Hydra said:

And to counter that argument, why would the inquisition trust acolytes who value material goods and property above their sacred duty enough for them to be able to easily skip out or know how to dodge the =][= for any great length of time? After all, if money is their main motivator, then it would be rather easy for the other side to by them out and their loyalty would always be suspect. Such an acolyte would be no better off in the inquisition then a conscripted penal legionnaire; low level cannon fodder to be used and tossed away when convenient.

If an Inquisitor provides his or her acolytes with what they need in order to preform their duties as the inquisitor sees fit, why should they want money (or more money in the cases where the inquisitor provides them with cash for work related expenses. Those that desire to do the Emperor's work (or just gain ungodly power by moving up the ranks of the inquisition) would be the ones who would gain the inquisitor's trust and the trust of his or her peer's, not the mercenary who's in it to earn a living.

Good counter. But you can use the same one for those that are browbeat into working for the =][= (is there a shortcut for that symbol?), or even the ambitious people: The power of Chaos can just as easily scare them into treachery, and especially provide them with alot of power: Daemonic power!

Of course true believers and fanatics is the preferred acolyte, but how can they be absolutely sure it's not one of the trillions of people that pay lip service? In such case, it pays off to provide them with at the very least the means of survival (for a scum), the means of passing into society (clerics and nobles etc), and even for them to purchase specialized equipment they deem necessary for use one the missions. And since the =][= is often portayed as stingy, needing extreme reasons for just requisitioning some basic gear, it makes sense that the Inquisitor just hands out a (to him) small sum, so that he needen't be bothered with every lasgun and grenade purchase.

And considering that there are surely some less scupulous characters as acolytes, why not pay them so that they won't be tempted by bribery or give up the cause for their next meal. Just like well paid police is generally less curruptible than supposedly idealistic ones that have a hard time supporting their families,

Ideally, the acolytes would recieve no income but have unlimited access to the =][= resources (through their employer), but that means alot of extra work for said Inquisitor, and very tedious for the acolytes that they might have to write applications in triplicate just to get ammo to their weapons. Quite often their organization is out of reach as well, so they would have to carry with them a certain sum each mission.

The Bondian approach could work, but that would lead to a less grittier game where the acolytes don't have to struggle, I much prefer them to struggle both to get money/equipment, and the support they need from authorities. Every large organization should be inefficient and uncaring of it's members ;)

The Inquisitor in my campaign (Varrak from core book and Purge the Unclean) is a more benign one though, even offering large sums to get the job done without too much protest (but not just to get power swords for the whole team).

As for those who think money doesen't matter, you must obviously have missed the equipment chapter of the book and the IH. Take a group of starting PCs with starting gear and thrones, give them 1000 xp, take another team with the same amount of xp but unlimited access of gear... the latter will slaughter the first. Militairy grade bolters and lathe swords with best quality carapace armor vs lasguns, stub revolvers and basic flak armor (or even primitive!)... it's not really a fight. Some equipment in DH is expensive for a reason (boltgun ammo), and the acolytes are not meant to have such until they have been on many a mission, gotten paid alot, and having promotions to get them even more income. Tech priests are meant to have better high-tech equipment and the skills and talent to support them, Clerics' lack of fighting abilities is compensated for by large income (it pays to be a holy man), the Guardsman incredible fighting abilities is somewhat hampererd by a low income. Scum are just scum, and they are supposed to have to struggle to survive and thus become hardened, they survive despite lack of money and influence.

As such I would much prefer if the game had a clear and reasonable system of ecconomics (where dregs can survive on their meagre income), of where the income came from, what it was dependent of, how acolytes operate in society when not on a mission and how the =][= covertly or not so covertly supports the acolytes and accociates.

(BTW yes I*m a Shadowrun player and I miss lifestyle costs, although I don't miss the goal of making money)