Text: R (4+): Once per turn, before a control check is made, that control check gets -4. Failing this control check will not end the Combat Phase.

Akuma attempts to play a card.

Akuma decides he doesn't like that card, and decides to hack the control check for it. As a cost, he must make a control check of 4+

Akuma decides he doesn't like his ability either, so he decides he wants to hack the control check he is attempt to make. As a cost, he must make a control check of 4+.

Akuma decides he still doesn't like his ability, so he decides to hack that control check too. As a cost, he makes a control check ...

Since Akuma is never getting around to playing his ability, the "Once per turn" clause never activates. Akuma's self-hatred leads to him to (eventually) mill out.

Legal?

Wafflecopter said:

No via the Once Per turn limiter as noted in the AGR.

I'm having some trouble finding it -- I ctrl+f'd for every instance of the word "once" and didn't come up with anything :

Wafflecopter said:

2.9.0.9

I will add expanded clarification on that on the next revision so "Once" will tag something on control F.

It was my understanding that based on the wording, he may attempt to play his ability any number of times per turn, but it may only be successfully played/resolved the one time (example - he fails the check to play R, he can attempt it again later), since he says "once per turn" and not "only playable once per turn".

The problem with this scenario as i see it is that Akuma reacts before a check is made, so he could react with his R, and then before making the check for the react, react again with his R, and so on. And when the player finally decides to go through all his reactions, he makes his first check to give -4 to his ability. And then the "once per turn" clause kicks in, and all his others fizzle.

Except that the check is a cost, and he still has to pay said cost by making a control check - whether or not the ability resolves.

Ok. Why would anyone do this anyway?

babelfish666 said:

Because they hope to drive their opponent to conceed rather then loose brain cells watching that sort of mental retardation.
(Plus seeing as Akuma has Evil and Void, it's another method to AYB Loop, that will probably cause Akuma to loose due to checking twice for each check. )

Yeah -- 2.9.0.9 doesn't apply because the ability is simply "once per turn, blah blah blah" rather than an "only playable" restriction.

So this would be legal, then?

As long as it hasn't been resolved, yes you could.

Once the ability has been fully resolved once, no.

Are we maintaining the difference between, "Once per turn,..." and "Only playable once per turn" (very confusing), or are they going to be equivalent expressions?

And, to make sure I have this right, if Akuma responds to the cost for his own ability with that ability, say, 50 times...

Would he then immediately make 50 checks to see whether or not each of the previous checks gets hacked?

ARMed_PIrate said:

ARMed_PIrate said:

yeah pretty much, but as soon as one check is passed, every other check is still made, but the effect fizzles, because he's already successfully used the ability once for that turn.

so now i guess the real question is why anybody would do this? can we get an explanation please lol

Antigoth said:

This is why. Can drop this turn one with ease (well, Billiard and Mult-Hobbyist, at least)

And the Akuma player will eat up the opponent's deck LONG before they mill themselves, Brian. 59 + 1 - opening hand = 52 cards, meaning five cycles before death. Opposing player's deck will be in momentum long before that.

MegaGeese said:

for multi hobbyist to work doesnt akuma have 2 fail the check? that would mean loading the deck down with 3CC right?

Edit: nevermind lol it would be 2cc because the hobbyist gives +1 but we are talking about having an airbase out arent we?

So here is how Akuma + Multi- Hobbiest works:

MH ability is announced.
Akuma Hax his own ability a billion times.
The first time he passes a check to hax his own ability, the entire string fails.

Where I said that every other check still happens, I was wrong. Because in paying the costs, the ability sees that it has a once per turn ability, and will no longer allow the cost to continue to be paid.

So once Akuma passes one of his Hax checks, the rest all fizzle without a check.

This will all be clarified in the next AGR.

So... the paying of costs can be interrupted by changes in the game state that lead to a violation of the restrictions on an ability being played?

eesh, I don't like this. Not. One. Bit.

Wafflecopter said:

It becomes an illegal play. You can't pay the cost of making an illegal play. The ability has already been played once. They all just fizzle out, and the game state continues.