I just finished and won a game against Hastur. A few questions popped out during the game

1) What happens if we run out of Clue tokens and more should be placed on board?

2) When I draw an Injury or Madness card, do I also draw an Encounter card during the next Encounter phase?

1) Of this I am unsure. But the rules in the League scenarios say that what you have is what you get, so you're probably limited to the clues that are in the supply. But with so many clues in play, it shouldn't matter if you run out

2) If you go unconscious or insane in town, you go to the Hospital or Asylum, and you do not receive an Arkham encounter during the same turn. This does not affect next turn.

Also, Injury and Madness cards just serve as an alternate for discarding items when you go unconscious or insane, so if you receive one by some other means (for example, during a random encounter), then that does not make you go unconscious or insane, so you don't miss out on encounters that turn, and you do not have to go to the hospital or asylum or discard anything (aside from what the I/M card tells you you have to discard, that is).

I think there's a finite supply of clues. If you're told to place a clue somewhere when they're all in play already you simply don't place that clue. The maximum number of clues in play is equal to the number of clue tokens.

We always just use other stuff when the clues run out. Like brood tokens. It isn't like information is limited so running out of clues doesn't make any sense to me.

Lord of Squirrels said:

We've added the chits from the Call of Cthulhu LCG Core Box to our Clue Pool; one side is the "Investigation" Magnifying Glass and the other side is the "Combat" Skull. We use the Skull side to count off intermittant successes between Final Battle Doom Tokens (skull, skull, skull, doom token, repeat as necessary).

Lord of Squirrels said:

That wouldn't make any sense either and it's still part of the rules that when you run out of markers for both, the AO awakens.

After seeing the ruling in the league I have no doubt that running out of clue markers means you'll no longer get any in 'normal' games, too.

Well, that would work with gaining clue tokens for investigators, but what about rumors that require you to place clue tokens to a fail limit...? Not that it has happened to me - yet.

In that case the clue tokens are acting as markers rather than as clues, so you must find some substitute (there's a post in the League FAQ about this case). It's only clues on the board and held by investigators that are limited (but if you have 40 of them total already, do you really need more?)

What were you doing that you ran out of tokens and weren't spending them fast enough?

jhaelen said:
We always just use other stuff when the clues run out. Like brood tokens. It isn't like information is limited so running out of clues doesn't make any sense to me.

Well, do you think there's a limit to the number of monsters or gates that may appear in Arkham?

That wouldn't make any sense either and it's still part of the rules that when you run out of markers for both, the AO awakens.

After seeing the ruling in the league I have no doubt that running out of clue markers means you'll no longer get any in 'normal' games, too.

Arkham can only hold so many monsters or gates it's a small town. You are telling me you could actually fit a limitless number of monsters anywhere? Or that there can be gates every step? But there is never too much information in the world and people can learn the same thing and it be new to them.

It also never specifies in the rules that you can or cannot run out of clues but it does specify for monsters and gates.

I ran out playing a few times in 6 player with MrsGamura. Diana Stanley, Hypnos and that encounter that doubles clue tokens did it once. Eihort was the AO I believe. Diana had 20 clues or so.

Lord of Squirrels said:

It doesn't matter if only a single monster is running around in Arkham per turn. Theoretically you could run out of monster counters and never have more than a single monster in Arkham at any given time. All you have to do is to keep all your trophies.

Similarly, it doesn't matter one bit how many gates open in Arkham at the same time. Again, theoretically, you could have only a single location where a gate opens, you close it, get the marker, then the next gate opens - ad infinitum, or rather until you run out of markers...

So both are completely superficial limitations that make exactly as much sense as limiting the number of clue tokens.

Yes, but if you run out of monster tokens when one is requires (or gate tokens), then the AO immediately awakens. So there is a limit, in a way.

I didn't say that's what happened when you run out of markers. I said it makes more sense from a standpoint of a town can only have so many gates or monsters due to geometrical limitations. The brain has a lot more room for data than a town does huge nasty monsters and gates to another dimension. And with 3-4 brains the same info could be learned multiple times.

And the rules state the AO wakes up if you run out of monsters or gates. It never mentions clues. Very open to interpretation. Mine is clues don't run out.

I've always assumed there wasn't a limit and used brood/yellow sign/whatever else if need be, (curse you Has+ur), but it would be interesting to try it the other way...I'll wait for an official ruling, but for now I play unlimited.

Lord of Squirrels said:

The limitations of a town you are talking about would be a rationalization for the monster limit in Arkham and the maximum number of open gates respectively. Both are conditions that will cause the Ancient One to awaken.

Running out of monster or gate counters is something completely different and has nothing to do with 'geometrical limitations'. Both are hard to rationalize, they're part of the rules for meta reasons, namely: what should a player do when running out of tokens. There's no in-game reationalization nor does there have to be one.

You can run out of monster markers even if there was never more than one monster in Arkham in any given turn.

You can run out of gate markers even if there was never more than one gate open in Arkham in any given turn.

So both conditions have nothing to do with 'geometrical limitations': Arkham clearly has enough space for more than one monster or more than one gate at a time. The reason these two limitations exist is that you can run out of tokens.

The only difference to clue tokens is that there are different kinds of monster markers and gate markers, which is why it's difficult to substitute them with another kind of tokens. That's not a problem with clue tokens, since they're all the same.

We always play that we can run out of clue tokens. If groups want to play where there is an infinite supply of informatin to be gathered about the mythos and start using pennies (or whatever) as clues, then so be it. But we've found that by instituting the clue limit, and the fact that we play 8 investigator teams almost all the time, that players become more generous in using them so that there are always more clues for the rest of the team to obtain.

I think that's why I like some of the new personal stories. The fail condition (or pass/fail bits) limit the number of clue tokens a particular investigator can have.

jhaelen my whole point has been that running out of clues makes less sense than running out of monsters or gates. My point is more from a real world perspective of what would happen in a Lovecraft story as opposed to what happens when you play the board game. Geometry plays a huge role in the opening of gates especially in "Dreams of the Witch House".

Your point is totally aside from the one I am trying to make in the first place. Monsters in reality take up physical space so there should be al imit of how many can fit in a town (monster limit). Gates can only appear in a cretain amount of space before the entire town disappears (Gate Limit). Knowledge (i.e clue tokens) is limitless and not a physical property at all. That is the rationale I use for why clues should not be limited.

In addition:

People don't stop learning until they die, hence there should always be clues appearing. Eventually, if they kill enough monsters or seal enough gates though, there won't be any left. Running out of clues just doesn't make logical sense to me.

Plus what about cards that have you place clues on them for book keeping purpose... Rumor, Items, etc... If your limiting yourself to the 48 (?) clues that come in the box these cards are going to hurt.

Lord of Squirrels said:

While this is true, knowledge is somewhat limited in the 1920s where transportation was not as widespread and technology was not what it is today. You could not just go to a computer and google things to find information.

Also, while you may learn new things everyday, not every thing you learn is going to help you fend off a shoggoth! And the hoarding of Clue Tokens (which seems the only way you could run out of them in most games) could represent an Investigator's unwillingness to share what they have learned with their fellow Investigators. So, my Investigator keeps the knowledge of how to kill Shoggoths to himself and you therefore you never learn what I know.

Looking at the situation in that way, there could be a finite amount of clues, as all of the necessary knowledge is contained within a group, but their lack of willingness to share means the other Investigators don't learn what they need to survive. Share the knowledge: spend some Clue Tokens on something!

While what you say has some verity, the Lovecraft books are all about seeking of knowledge to understand the mythos. These guys could all learn the same stuff and there would still be more to learn. There is always more to learn about all the crazy monsters and gates. Plus knowledge about weapons, conditions in town that affect things and the geography of the town for ambush/ escape purposes, etc... The are dozens of books in the Lovecraft novels as well. Even in the limited access in the 1920's there would be so much info that it might as well be limitless. It might be harder to come by but these guys are investigators after all. They should be able to find it.

On a separate note: this has given me an idea for a herald. Should be cool. I will try to post it soon.

Templarion said:

I just had a game where I ran out of clue tokens while setting up the board! All expansions, 4 investigators. Lots of unstable locations, each investigator had a few clues each, and then an investigator started with Professor Rice as his random Ally. We still lost :-)