Cifer said:

Cifer, you seem to have confused Varius and myself with that little comment of yours.

Easy mistake to make, we're both dashing, well mannered, humourous and educated, so no worries i'll let it slip.

LeBlanc13 said:

*nods* Everything the Players get so do the NPC's, but not everything the NPC's get will the players get.

I'm very much a fan of "try it out on the goons first to see the reaction and effect" kind of stuff.

Velvetears said:

You forgot humble. I dare you to find someone more humble in the world.

As a studying physisist, i must say.

a) many things in warhammer 40k is impossible with our current day technology and understanding of physics.

b) i dont expect physics to stop, granting us alot of new options, just 600 years ago everyone basicly believe that flying was imposible, the sky was a cool poster made by god, and that the earth was flat.

And i dont see why titans cant exist? i mean we have already accepted the uniform gravitional field in space ships? Add a reverse gravity field countering the planets grav. field and the titan is suddenly a hole lot lighter.

Edit:

And recoil gloves is not just a piece of hand clothing it covers the entire lower arm, to better counter the torque.

Sarius said:

I know I'm being a nit-picking ass saying this, but the world's roundness was determined by the Greeks over 2000 years ago. No educated person 600 years ago believed it was flat. The poster thing is also wrong, but I won't go there.

bogi_khaosa said:

well there were no major science community after the greeks and up to about 300-500 years ago, but i do not believe the science community is going away again.

And 600 years eduacted people basicly got from the education that the earth was flat, well some people had noticed it curved a bit with the horizon but still belive it ended into a sea of abyss or the like . And they believed at the point was that the heaven was unchanging and perfect aka. "poster" .

And maybe i should have changed everyone basicly to basicly everyone in my original statement.

Recoil Gloves don't break the game. And neither do Fire Selectors.

But I find the combination of dual wielding autoguns with fireselectors and 3 magazines at almost no penalities to bee Too Munchkin.

And I actually LIKE Munchkin. Heck, one of my players drag around an Autocannon, which he operates on his own...
But he won't be dualwielding those

Thankfully, after a short period of not-too-enthusiastic complains, my players actually agreed with me, and now it's not an issue. We didn't change any rules, we just agreed to not do it.

Darth Smeg said:

Of course not, Darth. Autocannons are heavy weapons, not basic.

Though, nothing like having your very own "Try Again" Bragg-type in the group...

bogi_khaosa:

No educated person 600 years ago believed the Earth was flat? How about today?

Enter: "The Flat Earth Society" http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm

Yes, some people still DO believe the Earth is flat and the moon landing was faked.

Hey, i also believe that the moon landing was faked, but not that the earth is flat ... now where do i fit in?

btt: as a GM i do not find the recoil gloves as overpowered, munchkin-like or unbalanced. You trade cc-ability for increased rc-efficiency. So just one enemy grunt in cc with the shootist can smack him around for a few rounds till he managed to get rid of the glove and grab a melee weapon. wooooh, big deal!

and as several people have pointed it out before, everything the PCs can, the NPCs can do it as well.

for a few times the dual-wielder will be 'more efficient' than his comrades, but every time when subtlety or close combat is necessary he can just ***** and moan.

If we go by the RAW recoil gloves are hardly game-breaking: Basic weapons wielded with recoil gloves don't become pistols. No shooting when engaged. No benefit of the Gunslinger talent. But most importantly and removing the munchkin aspect: No full or semi auto bursts with both weapons if they are not pistols.

Is that last bit a house rule? I cannot remember having read that anywhere ...

Darth Smeg said:

No it's RAW. Read the descriptions of the Semi and Full Auto Burst actions. Coincidently they are the only reference to allow firing dual bursts at all which has led to some confusion after the two-weapon wielding clarification in the errata - they're allowed but only with "pistols", explicitely mentioned much like in the description of Gunslinger, Hip Shooting, Dual Shot.

So unless you want to classify basic weapons with a pistol grip or recoil glove as pistols - which opens up one can of worms like what makes pistols different to basic weapons (with a Compact upgrade), can you then shoot in melee, do you need Basic Weapon or Pistol Training and all that - it's a house rule to imply that a rule for pistols extends to any weapon wielded in one hand. And once you tread the territory of what's conceivable instead of the RAW you will find yourself confronted with other heavily unbalanced stuff like Dual Shot bursts, gun mechadendrites not firing as a Reaction but being completely independent of what you do otherwise, off-hands with Lightning attacks and more. I know these have been clarified but all in favor of balance over imagination. Better to stick with restrictions than what's cinematicly possible.

As I see it recoil gloves are a cheap way to get a free hand while wielding a basic weapon. However, not to be used for double bursts with 2 basic weapons.

Good catch!

The Two-Weapon Fighting section on p.197 specifies "weapons you can reasonably use in one hand", so I guess going single-shot with a rifle and full-auto with an auto-pistol would be ok.

Another Nerf to slap down my gun-toting players with. Muhahahhahahaaa

Chester said:

The assassin on one of my groups will weep, and my psyker will weep also...

Then again, i've just been given some bubblewrap, so i'm happy and larry.

"Brother Techpriest, what is this strange plas-wrap? it is filled with bubbles.. Might they contain virulent toxins?"

*pop pop pop pop*

"um.. i'll hold my breath i think..."