Homme Chapeau said:

^this

completely

I do not really think that the whole idea of reprinting cards in the current meta is a good idea it is very unfair to people who spent money on boxes to get the card to just get it in a reprint starter.

I am however not against them reprinting cards that are not in the meta as long as it is within reason and would like to see a set like an edition set in magic where the set is a lot of reprints and maybe some new cards.

Antigoth said:

Remember good sir that I am discussing a theoretical eventuality in which FFG does employ this sub-rarity system AND they choose not to disclose it to the public. Information regarding the exact process of printing sets is kept private and employees are under a non-disclosure agreement. Assuming these points to be valid and true, by what means would emailing anyone at the company provide any semblance of the truth? Although you could argue a company lying to you has moral implications, it is by no means illegal. They can print as many sheets of commons, uncommons and rares as they like with the intention of visually representing a perfectly balanced set. It doesn't mean back at the factory those same sheets are being used.

Right now there is no proof to validate either side. Uncut sheets and publicly announced company policy are no token of truth, but neither are conspiracy theorys based on conjecture. This was an exercise in voicing your opinion and getting those creative juices flowing. I wanted to see how ppl on both sides of said arguement presented their views (both bluntly and eloquently). This is a theory, which may or may not contain ficticious information that in no way is endorsed by FFG or their affiliates...insert more legal jargon blah blah blah

Tader Salad said:

Your theoretical really does more to hurt the topic then help.

My answer was not opinion. I cleared my answer with Hata to ensure that I wasn't going to get slapped for breaching my NDA. (Hi, I'm a Rules Arbiter, I write documentation that is official for UFS. If people didn't suspect that I had an NDA, please...)

There is already enough rampant hysteria and dis/mis-information floating around these boards.

Having someone strongly put forth a "conspiracy theory", and then hang on that theory only adds to the confusion as the casual forum goer tries to decipher what is truth and what is fiction.

If you want to post speculative fiction and conspiracy theories, please head to the off topic section. I'll happily leave you to your own thing over there.

Tader Salad said:

Whaa? Dude it's 4 AM, and just before I head off to bed I figured I should come to the forum for a quick check-up, and, egads! Do my eyes deceive me? Somebody asked for my opinion on ANYTHING? ****...guess I'd better come up with something since I know I'll never be asked for the same favor twice.

There's little to say frankly, but I guess I will say what I can. About your idea for a multi-tier rarity system, I think it's bad, plain and simple. With 4 rarities you've pretty much hit every base you need to it. To add any more will make things too difficult, too pricey, and it's simply unnecessary.

When I'm designing my fan cards, I try to implement rarity in a way that it's reasonable to achieve cards. Of course, unlike UFS has always been, I also make sure every card I make is worthy of seeing play, that way not a single card could be viewed as fodder (if possible, sometimes balancing issues come up and leave me with a less usable card =/). Still, I try to see to it that obviously popular and global cards don't get ultra rare, unless it is truly begging for it. Of course, I don't ever design BS cards like Feline Spike either =D. Also, ultra rare foundations = horrible idea, and the only promo foundations that should be allowed are boxtoppers and league kits, and that's it. There's simply no getting around the fact that foundations are ran in 3s and 4s, whereas say, ultra rare assets may still only be ran in 1-3s. Controller of Souls is the easiest example of an UR-issuing gone horribly wrong.

As far as reprints go, I'm not a huge fan. I mean, I don't throw a hissy; Cursed Blood has Good, so this fanboy is pleased. Most of the time reprints are acceptable cards anyways, so, again, I'm not too opposed. More...I like this game feeling fresh, and the longer older cards linger, the less it feels (especially with prize support being churned-out ever so slowly, as well as spoilers never being leaked, like, evar).

To reprint older URs and Promos? Well, to those who keep bitching, "OMFG I SPENT LIKE 50 BUCKS ON MY PLAYSET IT ISN'T FAIR", grow up, get some Johnson & Johnson's No Tear Baby Shampoo, and move along. If a card's being reprinted, then FFG obviously feels it's necessary for the game, or would simply be a fun addition (ex. Hero of Southtown wasn't necessary for the game, but it was nice to have it around). I'm not really sure what kinds of URs or Ps they'd reprint, but, once again, I likely wouldn't even care. I bought in boxes, so I likely have a playset of any ultra rare from the past, although let's face it, being reprinted means no more burning through packs; it just means participating XD.

...so...again, if it happened, cool. But it likely won't. Foundations are the most popular, and most balanced cards IMO. A lot of them have a universal presence in the meta that causes them to be reprinted or given the next block's star (ugh...Oral Dead). Such is the tradition, and it's pretty nifty.

Oh, and Antigoth, I think he wanted our opinions because we're smart, and our points provoke thought. But, for the sake of being a complete ass

you just got compared to me, dawg =)

Antigoth said:

It's true. He will. I should know.

I think FFG should move toward a "Base Set" that is primarily (entirely?) reprints of old cards as soon as next year.

One of the things that keeps Magic going is the frequent reissuing of old cards in the form of a base set (Revised through Set what? 11 now?)

This set-up allows players to dig out solid cards from previous sets and play them legally, while still making them available to new players. It works. It sells more cards. It keeps veteran players feeling valued. They should do it.

Well Armed Pirate, as if you didn't already notice, Set 12 had plenty of reprints. Most of these "reprints" shared 2 symbols with the previous cards (similar to Set 8's reprints), or shared fewer symbols but the exact same effect.

I wouldn't want a WHOLE set of reprints, because then I wouldn't buy anything; I'd just dig-up my older versions, which is why we even have league kits to begin with.

Also, reprinting ultra rares might be in the cards. Wasn't Burning Knuckle confirmed like way back when?

Burning Knuckle was rare.

Unifiedshoe said:

Eh, I was supposed to put "because", implying that, since they are willing to reprint rares, they might be willing to reprint ultras as well. As I said, they reprint cards they feel impact the meta in a positive way. Most ultras were character-onlies, and I simply cannot think of too many ultras that are balanced enough to impact the meta in a way most people view as positive.

START OVER

I see nothing particularly wrong with reprinting OLD rares or promos -- to go by the Squirrel's prices, uh, reprinting Unrequited Love would be about as fair as reprinting Kasumi-Suzaku, or Rigorous Training = Heisheng Jian, or Zeltzeriech Castle = Soul Power. Reprinting rares that are presently legal and holding really significant secondary market value -- say re-releasing even something as old as White Gi or Seclusion, that still commands a fairly sizeable price -- would just be sticking it to the players and something to be avoided. But if the cards are already rotated and Legacy continues to be largely ignored.... I don't see a problem. :]

Wafflecopter said:

Honestly, if they reprint something from Block 3 it better be accompanied by a certain watermark.

A watermark we should have seen on league promos from February onwards if you ask me but hey.

Wafflecopter said:

I would love to Z-castle get reprinted... and the attack side of Heisheng Jian...

MarcoPulleaux said:

no. Reprinting a similar card with a different name is not a reprint.

MTG has had Bird of Paradise in (i quit playing may be wrong) like 12 sets. With the same name. This way if you have the original card, you can still play it.

Although Calming the mind is a "reprint" of Mortal strike, i can't play with my old mortal strikes.

It would be more like keeping a "base SF" set which is lets say 144 card, and every "release" of the set some of the cards are dropped, some are added, and some remain.

I heard at one point that ShadoWar was supposed to contain some cards like that, like a Power Up with some different art but the same stats and symbols, and it would be treated the same as the old ones. Seemed like a cool idea IMO... it was probably just speculation tho lol

I'm perfectly fine with reprints of stuff that would otherwise be Legacy, especially if they incorporated errate and gave us new artwork so those of us who are collectors have something to differentiate it from older cards. Printing out a new variation of the same card seems silly when you could just reprint the original. Heck, it might make those older cards have value again since Legacy is apparently DOA for most areas.

i feel that they should run a base set of all the older cards once every 2 years and let it be legal for 2 blocks with older cards, have it for 2 months with alternate artwork (not on every card) and then move on the the next set, that way we get to accually use all these cards in formats and not just check a steady stream of cards into the bin which is otherwise wasting money. Its the way most magic players will accually keep playin and the reason they don't get pissed off with havin older cards.

Lets face it legacy is all about which broken combo can u pull off fastest so its played mainly as a side event rather than seriously

my 2 cents

Smazzurco said:

Yeah, and that's a good thing you can't! Calming the Mind is a balanced Mortal Strike. While Calming absolutely damages momentum-dependent decks, Mortal Strike absolutely makes them unplayable.

Besides, this game needs to move on, and if you want to play with your older stuff

PLAY LEGACY! (I hear it's fun)

Zhao Daiyu's rare action is an EXACT reprint of M. Bison's Psycho Focus, except you're losing the Order symbol and gaining the Chaos symbol.

To me, if the effect is the exact same, it shouldn't matter the symbols, it's a reprint.

But, again, this game needs to move forward. It's cool to see older abilities come back, but to see the entire card itself come back?

Again, that's what league kits are for, and they're all this game needs. League kits will see to it that some older cards come back, but only ones necessary for the metagame.

Zhao's UR action is not nearly as awesome as Psycho Focus. Psycho Focus gives +2 to all of your control checks, not just attacks, and the effect stays even after you clear it from the pool.

I would love Unnatural Grace if it's effect stayed even after you cleared from the card pool, and that would make it worth the difficulty, lack of black, and rarity. Kind of like how I thought Corrupting Evil was a perfectly good UR because it's effect lasted until the next time my opponent tries to play an attack, not just until the end of turn, until someone told me otherwise.

The things you could do with Psycho Focus when it was still around positivley dwarf zhous action.

The difference is about symbol changes. You are completely missing my point....

my point is to make cards not garbage once they rotate. Its a way to keep cards around, not to keep their effects around.

Btw there is this thing called "errata" where they could reprint an old card and slightly change the wording to make it iether less broken or more relevant to todays game. Like they could issue a ruling where they reprint mortal strike changing the text so that momentum goes at end of turn and then they make all older mortal strikes play like they have the newer wording.

idk just a thought.

Again though, the "reprint" we are talking about is more about keeping cards legal longer (making them a more worthwhile investment you could say) as opposed to making new cards just like cool old cards.

We just disagree. I don't think EXACT cards should be reprinted, regardless of whether you do or do not errata it. The only time and place for that is in league kits, which I do happen to agree with, because they reprint cards only once a year (well, as has been shown thus far), and again, it's in small quantities and only in cards that are helpful, but not are not spinal.

Once again, I'm OK with effects being reprinted, because most of the time they're either exact effects, or more tame (which, as you guys have pointed out, Unnatural Grace is one such tame effect). Both Set 8 and Set 12 have had "reprints", and I imagine set 16 will do the same.

Smazzurco understood me completely.

By reprinting EXACT old cards (not the unbalanced ones, just the solid, balanced ones), you make veteran players feel valued. Their previous investment (or part of it) remains playable in the standard format. Some of their cards remain playable, and not just in Legacy. PLUS it gives new players access to old cards that veteran players talk about.

If a given card is unbalanced in the current standard environment, it can just be rotated out from the base set, and something else rotated in for that year (or 2-year period).

This method has worked REALLY well for MtG, and is one of the reasons Magic has survived this long. It's not just the first, the most established, and the best funded CCG. They also have really smart business models that keep old players playing and keep new players from feeling left out.

ARMed_PIrate said:

And yet again

LEAGUE KITS HAVE EXACT CARDS

So I think the job is getting done just fine =)

MarcoPulleaux said:

yeah, also think of it this way... with all these reprinted promos that the older, more experienced players already have, the newer players will generally get first crack at them.