Puttin mah money where mah mouth is - REAL evidence

By MarcoPulleaux, in UFS General Discussion

Posted at

Protoaddict said:

MegaGeese said:

1. Pretty sure that you're not the one calling the shots on bans, dood. That is - how is showing you statistical evidence going to do any good? You've already made up your mind, and don't seem the type to be particularly malleable.
2. Don't be obtuse. You know **** well that both of the decks that made it to the finals had Chun-Li in the sideboard. Two plus two equals four; don't act like it doesn't.

If 2 of the 4 that made finals sandbagged they had to have some other character round one. If Chun li was so good why couldnt she beat the sandbaggers who were using the clearly inferior character in the first finals round? She would obviously be at an advantage if her character was that superior.

Statistics at least forms some sort of evidence. Opinion is not evidence and thats mostly what this thread was. The title of the thread said real evidence. Stats may not be the most accurate method but at least it constutes a method.


From my understanding from talking to and Link (Mike Lowe) this is what happened Mike was playing against Failed2k fronting SEONG MINA who is practically immume to ira spinta because of her e and has 34 vitality so she can survive feline spike. Mike told me that the Seong Mina deck was designed to kill chun li, and that is why he lost 2-1 to Failed2k because the games dragged on too long and he would get spinta locked.

Honestly after this weekend, chun isn't that bad and can be contained if you are smart about it, sure she can get the nuts and kill you so fast you won't know what happened. But on the other hand, I've drawn the nuts against aggro deck and was able to play a spiral arrow on thier turn 2, locking them down for 1 turn and essentially give me two turns of development and harrassment which led to the result of me winning eventually.

She is a strong character don't get me wrong, but there are ways to contain her. For instance this weekend, I was able to play psycho style action side, build alot, and then tenacious it back to my hand so that i don't get disrupted during my turn. Or Tuesday who would just manifest destiny chun li every turn, he did apparently beat like 2-3 chun li decks. He told me the night before that he believed chun li was a good match up for him. I remember that he told me in the UK, people didn't understand the fuss about chunners cause they have her contained fairly well. I can safely say that he backed up his words quite well.

Now I can safely say that Olexa is a better character then chun li. Ira spinta from either side fuels his character ability, and with a new low he can become better then chunners cause he can dictate when he drops a feline spike on your turn. And that is why I feel that Olexa got to finals (apart from his skill). Honestly against me, I'm sure he just used chun li to use rejections because he knew i would be siding into donovan/spikes/rejections/defender for a faster mainstream kill.

Posted at

Antigoth said:

Those are my observations in playing through a number of events. When you're talking about "Helping block attacks" I was finding Tira's Contract was more of a pain in the ass to deal with then was Bitter Rivals.

*whistles*

In all seriousness though, the only reason I hate BR right now is because it's making the game boring once it's on the table.

She is a strong character don't get me wrong, but there are ways to contain her. For instance this weekend, I was able to play psycho style action side, build alot, and then tenacious it back to my hand so that i don't get disrupted during my turn. Or Tuesday who would just manifest destiny chun li every turn, he did apparently beat like 2-3 chun li decks. He told me the night before that he believed chun li was a good match up for him. I remember that he told me in the UK, people didn't understand the fuss about chunners cause they have her contained fairly well. I can safely say that he backed up his words quite well.

Manifest Destiny to commit Chun-Li is good, but what symbol did the card he MDd off have in common with Chun? I'm curious.

Posted at

Protoaddict said:

What? you contradict yourself in your own statement. Furthermore since when is R Commit NOT a cost. Committing a single foundation has lost and won me games countless times.

A cards difficutly to control ratio means almost EVERYTHING to most decks. The fact that you would discout it on such a level is mind numbing to me. It is a balancing factor, as a matter of fact the most promonent and important balance in the game. pure and simple 3/4 is a bad spread when most other foundations in the game with useable abilities that will also win you games come in around 2/5. The fact that attacks also only range from 1-3 in the current block with the exception of high tide is also the reason its a 3 difficutly and the reason the difficulty is important.

And please do not do me this disservice of accusing me of not reading your post as this is is yet another accusatory statement. If I didnt read your post why would I read this thread in the first place. I disagree with a lot of what you say and talk to thoes speicifc points in my post. One would have had to have read your post to make thoes points. You say that I didnt get get your sarcasm in the title of your post, but i would venture to guess many people here did not get that sarcasm either. Internet web forums are not inherently strong sarcastic mediums and unless your someone like Hatman who does nothing put post sardonic remarks it will not translate. It also has very littl eplace in a discussion where you are trying to give yourself a level of credibility.

I did not contradict myself. I said committing foundationS, with an S, implying more than one. To turn a card sideways, in my view, is not a cost, it just means it can only be played once per turn (under most circumstances). No Challenges blows itself up (and is a 5/5), whereas Maniac, Ostracized, and Iori all require momentum. BRT does nothing, and has better stats than all 4.

BR being a 3/4 does NOT matter, and I'll explain why. Unlike bulky Order and Water decks, which have to run their Chester's, Chinese, Programs, and sometimes Experienced Combatants, Evil only has to worry about Chester's and BR for "bulky" cards (which says nothing since they're not THAT bulky anyways). Revenant's, Oral, BRT, Red Lotus, these are all cards that sport 2/5s (and blocks lol); Evil is an extremely cheap symbol to spam off of. Furthermore, most Evil decks only run 3 BR, and 3-4 Chester's. Being 3/4 means nothing, ESPECIALLY when its effect (which is free) can clearly override its stats. If Disciple of War had been a 1/6, it could've potentially seen play (despite needing 12 F momentum in its horrid momentum symbols).

I'm not trying to say you're ignorant or stupid for not reading my article, I brought it up because you claim I did not say why BRT and BR needed to go, when I very clearly DID. That was my only reason for calling you on the subject.

Don't get me wrong Fred, just because you and I disagree at seemingly every turn doesn't mean I dislike you. Hell, you're one of the few to continually debate me without throwing low, personal blows in. You're basically the new Vikramas XD

Posted at

I've even seen BRT backfire TONS without anti-CC-hax down. Stuff like an aggro deck revealing/drawing an attack they needed, possibly a better one than currently being attempted.

And people need to run that Algol action card, because drawing 5-15 cards off a BRT means that BRT backfired pretty dang hard.

Posted at

Tagrineth said:

And people need to run that Algol action card, because drawing 5-15 cards off a BRT means that BRT backfired pretty dang hard.

It's E is kind of bleh however. I was hoping for a real E.

And there I go not considering Block 4 momentum gen in order to look like a jackass.

Posted at

Homme Chapeau said:

It's E is kind of bleh however. I was hoping for a real E.

And there I go not considering Block 4 momentum gen in order to look like a jackass.

Dude, garbage card is garbage.

As of right now, the only symbol to even slightly care about it is Void, who not only doesn't really have much to deal with BRTs, but also has little in the way of momentum gen. Of course, even Void wouldn't likely run the piece of crap.

It's R is mediocre at best. You're STILL gonna fail the check more often than not, and I've said since day F'ing one, I don't want to clog my deck with a situational as Hell card only good during SMALL circumstances, useless everywhere else.

Posted at

MarcoPulleaux said:

As of right now, the only symbol to even slightly care about it is Void, who not only doesn't really have much to deal with BRTs, but also has little in the way of momentum gen. Of course, even Void wouldn't likely run the piece of crap.

It is a 5 cc that nets you momentum in Block 4. It may suck but hey it's not Willful E: bad.

Kinda wished all of the anti-whatever were as awesome as Tieh Lei : Iron Thunder. People cry when that hits the table. Mostly because nobody knows what it does because nobody but Steve Horvath, someone else and me care about Yi Shan.

Posted at

I dont even know how to respond to someone saying that hoping is a bad card. It may be the only non character based mometnum gen on void and the only one on all that isnt a possibly bannable foundation. I'm not even going to argue this cause i know it will not go anywhere, but im almost willing to bet that something close too 100% of all decks that are pure void or all at every major tourney here on out will be running this in at least sideboard.

Posted at

Homme Chapeau said:

It is a 5 cc that nets you momentum in Block 4. It may suck but hey it's not Willful E: bad.

Kinda wished all of the anti-whatever were as awesome as Tieh Lei : Iron Thunder. People cry when that hits the table. Mostly because nobody knows what it does because nobody but Steve Horvath, someone else and me care about Yi Shan.

::raises hand::

I <3 that card.

Posted at

Protoaddict said:

I dont even know how to respond to someone saying that hoping is a bad card. It may be the only non character based mometnum gen on void and the only one on all that isnt a possibly bannable foundation. I'm not even going to argue this cause i know it will not go anywhere, but im almost willing to bet that something close too 100% of all decks that are pure void or all at every major tourney here on out will be running this in at least sideboard.

Dude when credible evidence is put down to show that his evidence is not evidence, and that is a different side, he proposes to agree to disagree because he's unwilling to budge and see anything differently.

Posted at

@momentum gen on Void... there's a number of bad foundations, too. Aim High reacts after playing a block, Light Hearted is an Enhance for your Megalo-able attack dealing damage, and there's a Zhao foundation that RFG's itself for a momentum.

rofl @ the troll video

Posted at

Protoaddict said:

I dont even know how to respond to someone saying that hoping is a bad card. It may be the only non character based mometnum gen on void and the only one on all that isnt a possibly bannable foundation. I'm not even going to argue this cause i know it will not go anywhere, but im almost willing to bet that something close too 100% of all decks that are pure void or all at every major tourney here on out will be running this in at least sideboard.

Obviously. I just wish the E was better though (like maybe two momentum?)

Posted at

Wafflecopter said:

@momentum gen on Void... there's a number of bad foundations, too. Aim High reacts after playing a block, Light Hearted is an Enhance for your Megalo-able attack dealing damage, and there's a Zhao foundation that RFG's itself for a momentum.

rofl @ the troll video

Zhao Foundation is not void. If it was i would use it. I like the action. Seriously it's not a piece of crap there are FAR worse cards.

Posted at

Protoaddict said:

I dont even know how to respond to someone saying that hoping is a bad card. It may be the only non character based mometnum gen on void and the only one on all that isnt a possibly bannable foundation. I'm not even going to argue this cause i know it will not go anywhere, but im almost willing to bet that something close too 100% of all decks that are pure void or all at every major tourney here on out will be running this in at least sideboard.

WhiteGi.jpg

Posted at

What's really fun is when you combo White Gi with Such a Popular Person.

Posted at

Antigoth said:

What's really fun is when you combo White Gi with Such a Popular Person.

I would like to think that Aquakinesis makes Soiree playable.

I'd also like to contend that Void IS a good symbol now. It has finishers, control, arguably the best draw in the format...it's a shame it doesn't see more play.

Posted at

MarcoPulleaux said:

Antigoth said:

What's really fun is when you combo White Gi with Such a Popular Person.

I would like to think that Aquakinesis makes Soiree playable.

I'd also like to contend that Void IS a good symbol now. It has finishers, control, arguably the best draw in the format...it's a shame it doesn't see more play.

It's my favorite symbol, i'm working on trying to get something going with it, we'll see

Posted at

Eithinis said:

It's my favorite symbol, i'm working on trying to get something going with it, we'll see

Akuma has Void

and there's also Chun Li + Sworn Vengeance + The Ways of Punishment

there. Two top tier characters already =)

Posted at

Void is good but it still has trouble playing with the big boys. It is still my favorite symbol and I try to use it whenever possible.

If Such a popular person said "and" instead of "then" I would be so in love with that card. It's still good though I may end up using it(Have 3 sitting in my binder I guess I forgot the effect XD)

Posted at

From my observations, Void has few ways to combat Order locks and is slower at establishing a significant board presence compared to Evil. IE. it dies to both of them.

Another "problem" is that it lacks a solid round of relevant characters. Chun li is the only one to come out for a while.

It has a fairly solid match against the rest of the environment though.

Though if I can let you all in on a secret: Death eats this meta game alive.

Posted at

Sol Badguy said:

Wafflecopter said:

@momentum gen on Void... there's a number of bad foundations, too. Aim High reacts after playing a block, Light Hearted is an Enhance for your Megalo-able attack dealing damage, and there's a Zhao foundation that RFG's itself for a momentum.

rofl @ the troll video

Zhao Foundation is not void. If it was i would use it. I like the action. Seriously it's not a piece of crap there are FAR worse cards.

There being worse cards only means that it is less bad in relation.

Posted at

MarcoPulleaux said:

Eithinis said:

It's my favorite symbol, i'm working on trying to get something going with it, we'll see

Akuma has Void

and there's also Chun Li + Sworn Vengeance + The Ways of Punishment + Akuma's shoryureppa + (Lol shinji) White gi

there. Two top tier characters already =)

FIXED

Posted at

Archimedes said:

Though if I can let you all in on a secret: Death eats this meta game alive.

Agreed, which is why I keep saying SOMEBODY needs to take the balls out of their purse and get some Death Donovan action in this game.

Perfect Sense of Balance, as people have already discovered, is sometimes BETTER than Red Lotus. It doesn't negate the commit, but it sure as hell discourages it (in a way that Torn Hero may not). Death also has universal board control (No Mems/EDD, Oral, Inhuman), Saikyo-ryu (discard that evades anti-discard), enough kill switches (Menuet, Vibrato, Tsurane), and a host of good characters (Donovan, Zi Mei, Victor, etc).

People need to put down their scales and pitchforks for a minute and start picking up some Poor Yoricks.

Posted at

New Nightmare makes Death aggro and controlly at the same time. He truly has brought sexy back.

Also, RoM Morrigan takes the Spiral Arrow and throws it right back at you. Death/Water is a good spread.