Gentlemen,

I am a long time player of the game but a short time poster to the boards. I have searched the FAQ's and perhaps I am missing something but I cannot find this question anywhere, nor the answer, so here it is.

With the Jol-Nar (Those are the people that can do the first ability of the Technology card right?) they're ability allows them to use the first ability of the Technology card when ever it is played. Hurray! They are smart so they can get a free technology and use the secondary, neat ability!

However! I have run into the most annoying thing with my players that I play with, the profess that when the Jol-Nar pick up the card and when THEY pick up the card, they get to get THREE technologies! They're logic is that they can use the first ability twice and the second ability once! I find this ridiculous, if not for the reason of it being overpowered, but for the reason that I don't think you should be able to do the first ability twice either.

I need an answer to this, when the Jol-Nar pull the Tech card, do they get THREE? Or just the standard two if they wanted?

My understanding of the Jol-Nar's ability to get two when they aren't even the ones playing it was because they are smart, not because the game mechanic makes it broken.

Thoughts?

I don't mean this to be a double post and this may be deleted by a mod if need be, but I wanted to give you guys reference, here is the rule as stated from the FAQ:

"When the Jol-Nar player resolves the secondary ability of
the Technology Card, he may also (in addition) execute the
primary ability."

So, they're thoughts are that "Well, I am playing this card as Jol-Nar, so I can activate the first ability and since I can choose to activate the second, I will, which means I activate my racial trait, which there is no rule saying I can't activate the first twice". This is sound logic, but indeed in my eyes a little broken and I don't think the rule was meant for this.

Again mods, I didn't see an edit button

I couldn't append my original.

You may use both the primary and the secondary, in any order you like. You need not use the secondary at all, and just use the primary (this is often the case on the first round of the game - thus just get one free tech). What this means is, if you are using technology II, you get a free tech, then you may buy another tech for 6, then you may buy another tech for 8. The price of those techs are both modified by any tech discounts, and you may use the same tech discount on both techs you pay for. Note that the any order you like part means that, for example say you have Automated Defence Turrets and Antimass Deflectors. Let us say you also have 3 green tech discounts and no red discounts. You can buy Cybernetics for 3 (6-3), get Assault Cannons for free, and then buy X 89 for 5 (8-3), for a total cost of 8 resources.

If however you are playing with Tech I, you get a tech for free, and then you may buy another tech for 8 minus any tech discounts. Again this can be in any order. Hope this helps.

This may seem too good, but remember the Jol Nar -1 to combat never goes away . It is crippling against equal foes, so they must have a tech edge.

To cover the use of the primary, If you take the primary of a card as it was selected by you, you may NOT use the secondary, unless it says on the card (leadership, diplomacy II and trade II sort of) as stated in the base rules (pg 10:"The active player may never execute the secondary ability of his own strategy card"). As such the Jol Nar player may not use the primary twice. The Jol Nar player need tech in the game, but should never take the card himself, as it is less useful to him than it is to someone else.

Robofish said:

Yes but doesn't the technology card state you can use the secondary as well? Or am I wrong? This is the Technology I by the way.

Bardlebee said:

I mean't Technology II by the way, NOT Technology I....

Technology II or Technology I do not allow the holder of the SC to play the Secondary.
The Jol Nar, as per the Race Sheet, can use the Primary ability when executing the Secondary (paying a Command Counter from Strategy Allocation). It doesn't say they can use the Secondary Ability when they are executing the Primary.

In short, there are 2 scenarios with the Jol Nar:

They do NOT have the Tech SC:
They can play a command counter to activate the secondary ability
They can then buy a tech for free with the Primary, they can then buy a second tech for 8 resources with the secondary

They DO have the Tech SC:
They can get one Tech for free using the Primary ability.

The same scenario applies when using the Tech II SC. The Jol Nar can do both when they do NOT hold the SC and can only do the Primary when they DO hold the SC. This means, if they do NOT hold the SC they can get 3 Techs using Technology II (one for free, one for 6 resources, one for 8 resources). If they DO hold the Tech SC using Tech II they can do the same as any other race (one for free, one for 8 resources).

FunkyBunch said:

Ok, Thanks for clearing that up guys. This is excellent news.

Thank you for your help!!!

Glad to help. I don't check over here often, but I will try to help when I do.

What if the Jol'nar play Tech Bubble? After executing the primary ability, they play the card and get to execute the secondary, allowing them to execute the primary a second time? With Technology II, that'd allow a player to pay 24 resources (minus planet bonus *3) for 5 techs in one go... O_o

That's a difficult question. Technically, I would say yes that's possible. It would be disgusting, but possible.

I was under the impression that when a player activates the Primary ability of their chosen strategy card, only the other players have the option of using the Secondary effect.

That's correct. The last question was refering to the Tech Bubble Action card or whatever that lets you use the Secondary Ability after using the Primary. Otherwise no, you couldn't activate the secondary if you activated the primary.

FunkyBunch said:

Jol Nar and Technology II

Primary: one free, and one for 8 resources.

One free tech, and buy a second Technology for 8. Nothing in the Primary about using the secondary ability on the card. Racial ability never applies, as it only kicks in when executing the secondary.

Secondary: is one tech for 6 resources.

Spend 1 CC from Strategy Allocation, and 6 resources for one Tech advance.

SO..

Jol Nar do NOT have the Tech SC:
They can play a command counter to activate the secondary ability. Get one tech for 6. Then they execute the primary( racial ability) and get one free tech, plus another tech for 8.3 techs for 14 base cost.

They DO have the Tech SC:
They can get one Tech for free using the Primary ability, and buy one Tech for 8. Just like everyone else.

With Technology II, the Jol Nar can get 2 or 3 techs per turn, if they have the resources to pay for it.

Note with the Jol-Nar, if another person selects tech, they can use their racial power to get the free tech, even if they choose not to purchase the tech in the secondary. This if from the FAQ (page 6, I believe).

If using Tech II, they could thus first get the Free tech, then spend 6 for a second tech, and then spend 8 for the third tech.

From the FAQ:

Q: Could you explain how the Jol-Nar and the Xxcha abilities
work as they relate to the primary and secondary abilities of
the Strategy Card?
A: When the Jol-Nar player resolves the secondary ability of
the Technology Card, he may also (in addition) execute the
primary ability. This allows the Jol-Nar to both receive a free
Technology (for the primary ability), as well as purchase a
Technology if desired (for the secondary ability). The Jol-Nar
player may choose to receive only the free technology for the
primary ability, and choose not to pay 8 resources for a second
Technology (but the Jol-Nar must still pay a Command
Counter to resolve the secondary ability, unless they chose the
Initiative Strategy). All other players simply resolve the secondary
ability as usual. The Jol-Nar ability does not trigger a
second “round” of secondary ability resolution.

In short it means that you can only use the primary ability if you activate the secondary ability (i.e. you generally want other players to pick the tech card). You don't have to pay more than a command counter to get one free tech. Two techs costs a command counter and 8 resources with Tech 1 or one command counter and 6 resources with Tech 2 and for three techs is costs one command counter and 14 resources with tech 2 if you activate the secondary ability.

That's what I said (Though the FAQ quote is helpful)

Actually there is a note under the Tech II card description in the SE rulebook that defines how a Jol-Nar gets tech when using his special ability.

The Jol-Nar and the Technology II Strategy Card:
The Jol-Nar player may use his special ability when executing the secondary Technology II ability in order to receive one free technology. He may then purchase a second technology at the cost of 6 resources, and a third technology at the cost of 8 resources.

So it's actually "Free/Six/Eight" on the tech purchases, which can make a difference if using tech bonuses and prereqs.