So we are finishing our third Rtl campain and the heros don't seem to have a chance to defend Tamalir. The same thing hapened in the previous 2 campains... : Liutennants in encounters are simply to strong .. no matter what skills we have and feat cards, the OL always wins.. first reason is that there is no restriction on how many liutenants he can purchuse .. so he always buys as many as he can in the coper age, then he upgrades beast (the stupid thing is the majority of liutenants minions are beasts).. By the time of late coper the heros are 20 - 30 exp in front of the OL so it shouldnt be so hard on the heros to defend tamalir. What hapens is that doble or triple reinforced liutenant atacking the heros or vice versa with razorwings, that has melric reinforcing him can kill any caster with the first sucsesfull hit ( he has 19 treat in the rist turn.. that can add 9 boost to any atack that hits - that for me is just to strong), then there is trechery.. well even if u ignore the power of that.. on the first weak of the silver age if the OL upgrades beasts to Gold, and lets say he is atacking the heros with the Kratz the Plague liutenant that has 4 normal razorwings and 2 master razorwins - even if u pick all heros give them any coper item and whatever skill u want and even if you would pick the feat cards of your choise it is not possible to win if the Ol is not playing stupid... And even if by some miracle you do beat the 4 15 life 5 armor razorwings and 2 16 life 6 armor master razorwings with stun next to a 60 life 7 armor pierce 10 breath liutenant .. with coper only items... the liutenant simply escapes and can be back on tamalir in 2 turns.. well that is another matter...

So what im sayig is that liutenats sould be much more expensive for the OL to buy, and a restriction on how many you can buy per age or whatever.. Soar is too imbalanced - already a topick i posted before... adding power dice for treat is kind of too strong .. I really feel that most of the problems would be solved by giving the heros grapple back..

We are 4 players that really love playing descent and we have been playing it for the last 2 years very often ... we played most of the original quests in all expansions and now the third campain in RTl.. we have to be good players at least in some way so this is not just some random whining..

please tell me your opinion

Lt.s don´t reinforce each other in Encounters. Or what do you mean by "double/triple reinforced Lt.s"?

That would make the individual Encounters a little easier.

Sounds like a couple of things are going wrong here:

First- no power cards in encounters, ever.

Second- Lts reinforce dungeons, not encounters.

Third- OL starts with 0 threat, gains 4 his first turn. In the case of Lt encounters he might have a few extra threat due to needing to discard at the start of the encounter, but that's it. No Merick reinforcement threat.

pinkymadigan said:

Have to contradict here:

Lt. Enc, pg. 16:

He automatically
puts into play, for free, at the start of the encounter, the Power
card named on the lieutenant card under the portrait (for
example, “DOOM!” for Sir Alric Farrow).

In the case of Merrick that would mean 15 starting threat.

D'oh. The rules are all over the place. But other than that, no power cards.

svarun said:

I'm wondering how the heroes have more EXP then the OL. I have never seen it less then at LEAST 120-80 in the OL's favor at the end of copper.

Ineffective OL I guess. No game of RtL I've played has ever been like that in Copper. Unless they are doing the CT/XP conversion wrong.

Big Remy said:

If the heroes get a good party and play well they can stay in touch. Both my for and against current campaigns are approximately even in CT and have been most of the way. Usually the heroes stay slightly behind, deliberately, often giving up conquest by ignoring glyphs or not killing Bosses they don't need to.

As it is working both ways, I don't think that either of us (players) is a poor OL. I do think that, with some experience, the heroes are able to control the game.
There are still 'problem' areas that we find come up though. Slaggorath was one. I suspect the Demon Lt might be another, though we have not played that OL yet.

Corbon said:

I have played RtL several times and have yet to experience this. It is just way too easy for the OL to kill the heroes. Deliberately skipping glyphs/bosses? Ridiculous. The only explanation for that is the OL is inept.

Corbon said:

Sorry "ineffective" was a bad word. I've had times where the OL makes the mistake of picking the wrong Avatar for countering the Heroes and even if the person is a good player, its a lot harder to be effective as OL.

Dashakan said:

*** for tat huh?

Since both players are able to stay in touch as the heroes in different campaigns we must be equally incompetents as OLs only, and both genius hero players.
If only we had a real OL around to show us how its done...

What's your address? I'll come over and educate you

(I kid, I kid)

Corbon said:

You clearly need an education in it, as no one I have played with would have a difficult time keeping way ahead of the heroes in CT if they put effort into it.

Are you guys all playing with or without Feat cards? These should shift the balance a little (or a lot?) towards the heros.

At least in Vanilla it does!