I'm just curious as to what people think is the perfect number of players for a game of Talisman. The more the merrier? Or something like 4 or 3 because it keeps the pace moving where people stay engaged with the game since they are moving more frequently.

I have played Talisman with everything from two to eight players, and four seems to be just right. Too few players means little to no interaction, while too many players slows the game down too much. It can be hilarious, but the game will never be finished...

Most of the normal boardgames can be played from 4 to 5 players:P

I think that you must not play talisman with more than 5.

Talisman is already a game that takes a lot of time to reach the crown of command and finish the game.

What about using the Reaper with 5+ people? I have played it with 8 and you are right it does take quite a while espcially if you use 7 as the number of points needed to increase a skill. More monsters are spread out between players. Now that I have the Reaper expansion, I have wondered if more players would cause the Reaper to move more and allow more chances for player elimination? I think this would help speed a large game up.

Board is 4-sided, so naturally 4, plenty of elbow room, hard to peak at someone's spells, enough space for elaborate "hand gestures" .

bioball said:

With 7 a 8 players, the reaper will be more active i think, but it will not speed up the game.

If players gonna die because of the reaper, then they must start again with a new character and the game will take longer and longer..

At least you must change the trophy from 7 to 5, otherwise it takes to long

4 or 5 players will do fine with a total of 5 trophy points for level up

Not experience it yet !!

greetz Velhart

4 players is my favourite solution. Games are competitive but don't stretch too much. 4 players make for a very balanced game, depending on the overall behaviour of players.

2-3 player games show less interaction and more than often a Character improves faster than the others.

5-6 player games don't allow a Character to gain a significant edge till late in the game; constant Spellcasting, Reaper and PvP slows things down a lot. These crowded games are usually the most funny, but they might be overlong and bring to mistakes and rule misinterpretations in the last parts of the game. This happens to me every time I play with that many players, even though I know this game a bit.

Yeah, just played with 7 players last night with the Reaper expansion but without the Reaper mechanic. I also lowered the trophy limit to 5 for skill increase. We played for 4 hours with no one making a clear move to the Crown of command. The groups consisted of:

Players
4- new players
2- second game ever
1- 5 game ever

Characters
new players- Knight, Philosopher, Wizard & Dwarf
second game players- Minstrel, Troll
fifth game player- Monk

This is also a group that plays Arkham Horror and BSG. Basically most people do not really enjoy the chaotic aspect of the game and seem to prefer to have a player-independant ending mechanic (Doom Track for instance in Arkham Horror). A lot of grumbling toward the end, but also very little PvP and everyone seemed to be very causious in playing.

I think for future games I will stick to no more than 6 players or perhapes give everyone a stat boost in the begining. I don't know if the Reaper would help a larger game or not. I did not want to overwhelm the people playing with new rules.

Almost any turn based game will slow down geometrically the more players there are. The more players, the longer it takes for any one player to get its next turn, and the more often that player to player (not always character to character) interaction requires yet more time per turn and round. And anything that causes the death toll to mount in the game makes things worse; do not use the Reaper in games with large player counts. If if no one dies, it still eats upon more time per round.

During 2e days, I played once with 12 players. After 9 hours, multiple pizzas, etc., the game never finished. In the last 3+ (maybe 4) hours, at least one person was always on the CoC... and it still dragged on. We never did that big of a game ever again.

A number of games were played with 8+, and they took about 6+ hours to finish (to the standard endgame). The least entertaining part was always finishing off the endgame. It's not so bad when player count is lower, but it drags, growing more and more tedious, the higher the count.

If playing with more than 6, regardless of lowering trophy levels, I suggest a king of the hill endgame, where the winner is the one who can hold the CoC for one full round without anyone else stepping into the Inner Region. IN OTHER WORDS, 4-5 is the best count.

JCHendee said:

I think I recall that in 2e the rules for CoC were that you had to choose your victim of the Command Spell

which could indeed make for a overly long end-game.

In 4+e though they have changed the rules so that the command spell effects all other players and not just one victim.

That should greatly reduce the number of command spells required to kill off everyone.

How else does it go on so long? (not counting hanging round chapel with poltergeist)

As for original question, I would say 4-6 players would be ideal, I only ever played a maximum of 4 people but we did play 3 player with 2 chars each.

Fot the moment I think 3-4 players is optimal becuse the more players the longer the game and very often it becoming endless especially with all the new stuff... New expansions generated many powerful items and healing or saving a Life is not a problem. It those tendency won't be changed Talisman can became a really frustrating and endless game... But I believe that future expansions make the game even more oprerative and give us lots of good fun.

[OFF-TOPIC]

Hey B.F., you are right about the 2E Command Spell rule. But overall I haven't found the 4ER Command Spell rule any better... because there is always one or more characters who can last out a few rounds to get to the Inner Region and go for it. Yes, more than one character can be knocked out with the Command now, so fewer turns are taken in a round. But it's really not that much of an improvement in the way we've played.

Spells get used a lot in our game, and more than once magic has been the key to getting advantage near the end. Plus most of us don't lean on objects to boost C and S; we build up naturally, so that nothing can weaken us when we fight for the crown... and fights usually occur at the Crown or among those trying to get to it near the end... lots of fights! The average S and/or C of those taking the CoC is 10+, often 12+, and with Lives usually at 4 or better before entering the Inner Region. Healing capabilities are saved up as well. Getting through the Inner Region is no challenge with high natural stats (and options to make the Inner Region tougher are not a solution). The Inner Region is just a way to slow the lead adventurer down while others race to catch him/her.

Perhaps its also the way we play; we're old schoolers more interested in the potential "story" along the way; we like Talisman because of its structural simplicity AND versatility for adaption. And we'll even call each other on actions outside of Alignment.

ASIDE: We also have a "boasting" contest if two or more characters hit the Tavern in the same round. Imagine two players, each who must spin a yarn in under 60 seconds about one encounter their adventurer had... and the better tales sometimes have nothing to do with Battle or Psychic Combat. This only works well with 4 or more players, and the other players are the judges as to who won. A player can also be declared a loser if they lie or remember something wrong about the basic details of the encounter embellished. The loser has to pay the winner a Gold. Still, this is a rare occurrence and doesn't have any measurable effect on game length. And its obviously not for those players interested in an FPS/deathmatch approach to the game who don't care about a bit of mild verisimilitude.

It's less about the endgame with us... which is monotonous no matter how its played or adapted. Even some of the old endgame expansions weren't that big a deal to us... which is why we haven't been particularly eager to acquire the recycled cards in 4ER expansions so far. (On the other side, we see how those who played 2e or 3e do want their favorite cards/etc. reissued for their new 4ER game - just wish we could simply buy expansions with nothing but cards, like were made for 2e in a couple of cases). The only expansions we use so far are the ones I've been putting together, others being tested, and some stuff presented by others in the group... some of which may be coming out down the line once I finish more of my own stuff. We've also put in some old 2e cards I've redone myself.

So overall, why are our games so slow? Any number of reasons. And the fact that we're all talking about how to speed up the endgame only... says a lot about Talisman's endgame after 20 years with some attempts to change it that weren't any better. Trying to fix, patch, simplify the standard endgame isn't the answer, obviously, though I can't claim to have something better myself... as yet.

Oh, and those six random endgame cards with the Black Void... some were interesting for a while. The Black Void was ceremoniously burn, literally, after about the fourth game where it came up. Talisman already has enough inescapable autoeffects, and that card simply makes the endgame even longer in some cases. Hopefully if FFG reissues those cards (one reasonable way to vary the endgame) they will come up with new ones to add to them and leave that Black Void out of it... if speeding up the end game is still of interest. The Tower would be a nice one to have as well, though it too could get old after a while. And it definitely would NOT speed up the endgame. Multiple variations on the Tower would be a good twist as well... and something NEW!

Interesting. I have only played 2 players so far and thus no chance to see
what effect the rule change has. Surprised though, I would have thought it would
speed things up considerably.

It probably depends on the MO of the players involved. I guess it would mean a more
urgent dash to the Crown as you can be eliminated more quickly but would not effect
the slug-fest when you get two equally powered characters battling it out on the Crown.

In that scenario, you are actually better placed to hang back until one is almost gone
so you can still pick up cards.

Thinking back to 2ed, I think a lot of time was used up on the Crown by stealing a strong
Object (Warhorse normally I think - in the end we removed it from the deck) rather than a life,
then stealing back, etc etc. Although my the sounds of it, that is not your problem.

I am with you on the alternative endings, they got used a couple of times then dropped.

What about these optional simple extra rules that may speed things up a little:

I have just noticed there is another thread on alternative endings so I am going to be naughty and double-post there as well as although these

are alternative endings, they are aimed at reducing the end-game time which seems to be the direction of this thread.

• Lych's Curse:
  
  When a character is on the Crown of Command, no Lives may be gained or healed.
  
• The Gathering:
  
  When determining the destination from the Lord of Darkness' Treasure Chamber Portal in the Dungeon, roll one die for each player on CoC and add to the total.
  
• Blood Lust:
  
  No objects or followers may be picked up from the CoC space if you are not alone.
  If you win a Battle or Psychic combat and force the character to drop an object or gold, no Character may pick it up until they are alone.
  
• Reaper's Hand:
  
  When the Reaper is in play, you may cast the Command Spell on the Reaper instead of the other Characters.
  If successful, you command the Reaper to materialize in front of the character of your choice who must encounter him as normal.
  

I have played with 2, 3, 4, and 5 people. I have found that the games with more people are much more entertaining due to increased interaction. You do pay a price in game time with more people. I don't think I would play with more than 5 as the game would never end. 3-4 people seems to be the best for a fun game that isn't too long.

After 2 weeks, i have a talisman game evening, and those players don't know the game,

I think i will lower the trophy points to 5 too.

I don"t know yet how many players will participate...

Just last night I played a 3 player game (Philosopher, Warrior and Monk) with the Reaper expansion. I also set the trophy limit to 5 and made the win condition holding the Crown for one full turn. The total game time was about 2.5 hours.

It was a nice quick game. I think I am becomming a believer that 4-5 players should be the max for this game. I have tried with with 6-7 people and it just takes too long in between turns, this is compounded by the fact that Talisman does not have anything for you to do in between turns unlike Arkham or BSG.

Oh and the Reaper was very fun, its like having an extra player.

bioball said:

Interesting

3 players with a trophy limit of 5 in 2.5 hours

then 4 players will not be a problem if you have only 4 to 5 hours to play.

-----------

The bad thing is that you level up fast in the game but if you have not much time, and you play with a lot of people, then is a limit of 5 trophy points the best thing to do...

Velhart said:

Bah, 3 players, trophy normal 7, max 1.5 hours . Anything beyond that is slow-playing. Okay, sometimes things happen that stretch the game, but 10-20 mins above that MAX.

Dam said:

I know you are a quick player Dam

2 player games with 7 trophy's will last about 4 hours around here

Velhart said:

Probably a good thing you're not into Arkham Horror then (at least not listed in your Hot-list). You'd never finish a game in day .

Dam said:

Whatever...you forgot to factor in time for copious beer consumption, trash-talking, Reaping and Talisman still being a new game to my group. Don't know the board as well or the best way to handle some situations tactically.

And I can play a 7 player game of Arkham in about the same time, but for some reason Talisman drags for my group.

bioball said:

When I/we game, there is no distracting side crap, tv, music, food, drink, etc. Focus is 100% on the game.

If i read Bioball stories, it seems that we both agreed with the time limit..

If we finish the game with 2 players and 5 trophy limit, then we do that in 2 1/2 hours

It seems that 7 trophies takes a lot of time if you play with more than 2 players..

So this will be the list:

2 players 7 trophy limit ( finish between 4 a 5 hours

2 players 5 trophy limit ( finish between 2 a 3 hours( 2 1/2

3 players 5 trophy limit ( finish between 2 a 3 hours( 2 1/2)

4 players 5 trophy limit ( finish between 2 a 3 hours(2 1/2) ???

5 players 5 trophy limit ( finish between 2 a 3 hours ) 2 1/2 ???

6 players 5 trophy limit ( takes longer than 4 hours

PS: I am not sure about the 4 or 5 player option.

Is this also done in 2 1/2 to 3 hours?