This game would be great.

By TripsEX, in UFS General Discussion

There are points with my playing of this game where I learn to look out for what cards to play, to trade, to avoid, to watch. Majority of those cards are indeed the power-housing ones such as Olcadan's, Chester's, Feline Spike (0,0), Ira Spinta and so forth with them. But thus far with those cards they don't have a supremely broken combo condition that makes any character they play with unstoppable. When the Injury Assets were still out to be played I had built B.B. Hood ** deck to avoid virtually all damage and so forth and to keep her readied so that I can use her abilities all the time, however since the Injury Assets went to boot I had to recon that deck so that it can be reformated and ajusted to the new/current list. The loss of Addess Syndicate was fair as well because then EVERYONE played those symbols with those things out all the time and you were beyond lock down. If any cards were to be banned or thought of I would put the AOP's in the list because of how I don't like them (xp) but then again they are just and fair to what they can do as a balance (difficulties, cc and ability costs). Cards such as Feline Spike and Olcadan's ARE POWERFUL but they have their own weakness to balance; Spike the difficulty and cc, Olcadan's has the fact that you give the opponent a foundation in replace (which in recent times, there are lots of annoying foundations out there). Chester's Backing, can stop any ability however can be stopped itself because of vitality negation. i.e. that ivy foundation (remember that article) and vega promo for example again.

Saying that there are cards to be banned because of their over poweringness is useless unless they can give a majority of cards that definite upperhand, i.e. Injury Assests... because they had infinity everyone could use them. Addess, everyone played those symbols or they comboed the AOP's required (cessation I think) to be able to play it, yet the AOP's don't get banned because they are used for other reasons instead of just negation, clearing, powering, nulling or whatnot... they grant some open windows to be viewed through. Plus my personal view of losing Spike and Spinta would suck for me because then when I get some from box pulling I can't trade them to anyone for collector stuff I need.

Banning a card needs to have a multiverse reason for it; Everyone uses this, it does this to everything, it unfair to all but you. But that's said to everything powerful right? well if you're trying to get new-er players to get into the game then build your own starter decks to catch them easily then pull out the guns for them to see or eventually get themselves. I did this with my roommates, built two decks to be used as starters to show how to play. Bishamon ** versus Ryu :::: with simple cards having simple gameplay. after a few games I edited the decks to be faster-ish and with the promo and tournament quality cards; Chester's, Olcadan's, Blinding Rage/Makai High Noble/ (siegfried 'dation) and so forth. After one game they were appreciative that they played with some 'slum' cards before the more 'quality' cards.

To the people saying "Learn the game" or "This is for better players who put time to the game" know this; I've been playing this game since it basically started and I'm still learning everything I can take in and no matter what's going on against me, I still play the game and keep going with it. So my answer to Trips' question about personal-preferred bannings; I'm all for it but only if it makes sense.

I believe the following cards should be banned, or in some cases errata'd:

  • Chester's Backing
  • Feline Spike
  • Olcadan's Mentoring
  • Seal of Cessation
  • Bitter Rivals
  • Lord of the Makai
  • Blood Runs True

I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting.

I'm not going to argue that these bannings need to happen. But I think the game would be noticeably more fun, more well-rounded, more inviting to new players, and just plain better if the above were gone or modified. There absence will improve the game.

I don't subscribe to the belief that we should always come into UFS happy to work within the current environment's challenges. Some challenges just aren't fun. And I don't think banning is something that is super scary and hurts the game a lot. I think anything that makes the game more fun should be done, even if it means obsoleting what are currently chase cards.

I also agree with Hatman that cards could/should be banned for reasons of streamlining/clarifying the game, even when power level is not an issue, though I'd like to hear his specific examples.

Yo Armed I have to say this on that list of yours:

Chester's has to stay in the meta as is cause just because it stops all foundations and net's you a card if you played a reversal doesn't mean it can't be stopped by a 50 cent card just think about that.

on spike son ok I heard the whole "it should have been Felicia-only" and I along with others agree with this 100%.

Olcadan's well it might ( and I mean this with all of my heart ) need to be unique but then again maybe not.

Seal of Cessation hell to the no it's fine as it is.

Bitter Rivals need's to kinda be errated to the whole "commit thing".

Lord of the makai needs to be either errated to unique of be banned outright.

Blood runs true (see above)

Now i,m not on the whole "strike with the banhammer of all that's good and unjust" but I will say this just because a card has answers to it doesn't mean that the card isn't good as hell but I WHOLEHEARTELY AGREE with this statement: PLAY BETTER and what I mean by that it this 9-10 no one is going to sweat those cards cause if you think about it ALL OF THOSE EXPENSIVE CARDS CAN BE STOPPED BY JUST OUTSMARTING YOUR OPPONENT . Think about the meta and even if you don't have anything to stop it and this is what a lot of players that don't have a lot of money do BAIT IT OUT.

But that's just me.

I myself am curious as to how the player base would react if the "Clear cardpool/no discard" enhance on Feline Spike was changed to a Felicia E.

The only problem i have with feline spike is the reversal, remove the reversal and the card is a lot more fair, there should never be a reversal that kills your opponent in one shot.

sir_shajir said:

The only problem i have with feline spike is the reversal, remove the reversal and the card is a lot more fair, there should never be a reversal that kills your opponent in one shot.

What about glass slippers and triple hammer lol . gran_risa.gif

Archimedes said:

I myself am curious as to how the player base would react if the "Clear cardpool/no discard" enhance on Feline Spike was changed to a Felicia E.

The card WOULD be somewhat more fair and it would probably open up diversity a bit. But as Shajir said, it's the reversal that's the real kicker.

B-Rad said:

Archimedes said:

I myself am curious as to how the player base would react if the "Clear cardpool/no discard" enhance on Feline Spike was changed to a Felicia E.

The card WOULD be somewhat more fair and it would probably open up diversity a bit. But as Shajir said, it's the reversal that's the real kicker.

Oh yeah greaaat... Lets give people even more reaon for people to build Chun-Li rather than any other Air character with Spike (Mignon, for example, who makes silly use of Spike)...

Does no-one else agree with my reasoning for making it Felicia Multiple?

Viewtiful_Joe said:

Oh yeah greaaat... Lets give people even more reaon for people to build Chun-Li rather than any other Air character with Spike (Mignon, for example, who makes silly use of Spike)...

Does no-one else agree with my reasoning for making it Felicia Multiple?

I DO!

This debate happened when the card came out, but I guess it's had a resurgence

It's the fact that you're being hit 3 times that ends up killing you. Sure, FINALLY blocking with Ichi no Tachi will save you (because it's doubtful Mark of the Beast will see play when released), but that's as far as the list of pros goes.

With Felicia Multiple, I promise you, the card won't ever see play in anything but Felicia. The E will still have use because you can clear your card pool, and should you play regular Multiples afterwards, they cannot be discarded, but the likelihood of that happening is relatively slim.

Plus, as far as I'm aware, the only card people play these days to discourage Multiples is Ichi no Tachi. It's as such...

If Feline Spike had Felicia Multiple, and you are running Feline but not running Felicia, and you use Feline's Enhance, and then the next attack you play is an attack with multiples, and you win because of that E on Feline Spike?

You deserve a medal :)

ARMed_PIrate said:

I also agree with Hatman that cards could/should be banned for reasons of streamlining/clarifying the game, even when power level is not an issue, though I'd like to hear his specific examples.

Most of my examples would be bannings until the errata document becomes available (Domination/Arrogance being the two chief examples I actually use sometimes so not having an easy-to-look at errata and an atrocious memory makes for a sad panda) - For the most part, nobody uses those cards anymore even though they're Standard format. As far as "Ban until X event happens." we've had that before - Leaping Commando Kick anyone?

Though I'm new to this game I do agree about your hatred of what some players call "Meta-Game" cards and Staples. But I got my hide tore out of the frame but Chun-li and Astrid, and guess what? It was my first tourney and they ran some of the cards you mentioned. Those cards only encourage me to try harder to take them down my own way. To me, I feel the game has nice enough variety to take down the best of the best. In any CCG I played I've tend to make a original deck that can bang with the big boys.

When I last checked, most of these cards rotate anyway right? If I'm correct then I'm not gonna worry about them too long, unless I'm in a legacy format tourney.

I do agree with you regarding the difficulty level starting players has to face when they start the game since I'm one of them. I fortunately love challenges and overcoming barriers so that's why I keep fighting on. As far as wearing out veteran players, that's the problem I face with YGO and that's why I sought out UFS. But anywhere you go as far as card games, you'll see the same problems so I'm learning to deal with it.

No offense armed...but if half of those cards get banned, i'd probably throw something very heavy at something very breakable. And it has nothing to do with the money i've spent. Thankfully this isn't YGO, where you need to give up 2 months of a GOOD paycheck to have a good deck.

First off...Seal? Really? So an incredibly versatile, and in some cases, necessary control piece for decks that probably need such a card to push them along to a win needs to go? No, wrong.

Chester's gives All and Water too much. You can't take the card away from those symbols. The same goes for Bitter Rivals for All and Fire.

See my point about Seal for Olcadan's.

BRT...eh. I wouldn't care much, but I don't think it needs to be banned, since Order's power has diminished due to a quicker pace of game, and the power level of a lot of Evil's foundations nose-dived after we saw higher calibur go bye-bye.

Lord and Spike are the only two I agree with you on that need to be fiddled. Lord should just be a commit-cost, that's all it needs without making it useless, and I don't think you can justify banning it since you take away All and Order's best options of gaining momentum.

Spike...we all know what needs to be done.

The thing about Seal is not every deck can run the card. And before you say "Infinity" I'll say "3cc asset".

Sacrifices can (and must) be made when necessary.

If I was in hata's position, i would issue the immediate changes:

Olcadan's Mentoring - Banned
Feline Spike- Errata'd reversal- felicia only or removed.

sir_shajir said:

If I was in hata's position, i would issue the immediate changes:

Olcadan's Mentoring - Banned
Feline Spike- Errata'd reversal- felicia only or removed.

Please no errata until we get a proper errata document.

sir_shajir said:

If I was in hata's position, i would issue the immediate changes:

Olcadan's Mentoring - Banned
Feline Spike- Errata'd reversal- felicia only or removed.

Personally I'd say errata Birdman to Unique. Some decks just have no way to deal with trouble foundations *cough*LifeVoid*cough cough* and some don't have reliable usefull foundations *cough* All/Good *cough cough*

As for Spike... Why not make it Felicia only in general? All three of those symbols have good other kill cards.

sir_shajir said:

If I was in hata's position, i would issue the immediate changes:

Olcadan's Mentoring - Banned
Feline Spike- Errata'd reversal- felicia only or removed.

sir_shajir said:

If I was in hata's position, i would issue the immediate changes:

Olcadan's Mentoring - Banned
Feline Spike- Errata'd reversal- felicia only or removed.

As someone already said that would just push more people to playing Chun Li. I do agree that it should be taken off but something should be done to the E: as well. I really feel that spike would not be a problem at all without the E:. Good, Evil, Death, Air, Fire, All, and Life would all have ways to deal with it(Ichi, Mark, and Make a Difference). Really the main reason Spike is such a problem is because the only cards that can counter it are all shut down by Inhuman perception and/or Chester's backing.

B-Rad said:

Archimedes said:

I myself am curious as to how the player base would react if the "Clear cardpool/no discard" enhance on Feline Spike was changed to a Felicia E.

The card WOULD be somewhat more fair and it would probably open up diversity a bit. But as Shajir said, it's the reversal that's the real kicker.

By the time most decks are set up to pass the (on average) 8 control check as a reversal, the opposing deck should have necessary pieces in place to survive Spike as a reversal.

If the opposing deck doesn't, then they aren't playing the metagame properly, and deserve to die to Spike as a reversal.

Archimedes said:

The card WOULD be somewhat more fair and it would probably open up diversity a bit. But as Shajir said, it's the reversal that's the real kicker.

By the time most decks are set up to pass the (on average) 8 control check as a reversal, the opposing deck should have necessary pieces in place to survive Spike as a reversal.

If the opposing deck doesn't, then they aren't playing the metagame properly, and deserve to die to Spike as a reversal.

Besides, most of us can soak that damage without doing anything to it.

Homme Chapeau said:

Besides, most of us can soak that damage without doing anything to it.

Not if your handsize is 7 or 8...

MarcoPulleaux said:

Homme Chapeau said:

Besides, most of us can soak that damage without doing anything to it.

Not if your handsize is 7 or 8...

Then you take it like the hobag you are.

Also, this game would be great if it wasn't for the ******* customers.

Homme Chapeau said:

Also, this game would be great if it wasn't for the ******* customers.

Are you suggesting that the Johns in some sort of UFS-related prostitution ring are the real problem?

ARMed_PIrate said:

Homme Chapeau said:

Also, this game would be great if it wasn't for the ******* customers.

Are you suggesting that the Johns in some sort of UFS-related prostitution ring are the real problem?

I'm suggesting a Clerks reference.

And I'm ashamed I didn't get it on the first read. Once you mentioned it, I hear it in Randal's voice and everything.