I want to appologize in advance if this is a stupid question, but i couldnt find an answer in the intructions or the boards. I recently picked up the base game and played my first time today, two players.

How are encounters handled with monsters on a single space, when more then one investigator is on the space as well? Multiple monsters with one investigator means fighting them one after another right?

When two investigators are on the space, do they attack at the same time (like fighting the ancient one), or take turns? Who would go first in that case? How would you determine which monster to fight first as well, if there is more then one?

Thanks in advance!

DeepSix said:

Whoever is the first player that turn goes first. Reread the instructions ;') keep your eyes out for phase order and first player.

Has anyone thought of any house rules for greater then 1 on 1 battles? It seems like there should be a strategic advantage to having two players on the same space, like adding together your combat success. The flip side being that 2 monsters could combine attacks on an investigator.

I think it would break the game, especially with the higher player numbers like 6+

Imagine an 8 player game, 2 people running around sealing gates and a lynch mob of 6 players bagging every monster on the board. Plus how would you determine who gets the trophy ???

I don't think its a very good idea but nothing is stopping you from making up whatever rules you and your group agree on that is the beauty of Arkham Horror !

Yeah you're probably right, i guess it was just wishful thinking on my part. I haven't played a large group game yet, but i can see how they would effect the balance. A group of 6 sticking together would hardly ever have to fight 6+ monsters in a single area, so it would be pretty one- sided. It would also seem like having characters move as one all the time wouldn't accomplish very much, since the way the characters are balanced they almost require taking separate paths.

Maybe if it was limited to two players teaming up things wouldnt get too out of hand. I was mostly thinking of times when a particularly nasty critter or large group occupied a space that one investigator just couldnt deal with alone. In an RP perspective, it would make sense that two people in the same area could be confronting something together.

You can trade equipment both before and after fighting, which does sometimes give a significant advantage in combat.

Vaxsythrakul said:

Probably true. However it does suggest an idea: a custom investigator who can get involved in other people's fights. To the drawing board!

And there are abilities and items that can be used to assist other players... don't ask me to be specific I'm ill and this is all I can muster atm.

thecorinthian said:

I created a custom investigator(s) that sort of fits to this theme. "the Twins", in the custom investigator thread.

1) We've been playing a variant lately that essentially allows much of this. We decide (vote) at the end of each round of turns, who will the be the first player for the next round. Usually, we just pass the first player token as usual, but if someone needs some help and calls upon another player to give the help such as in passing off an item or in cleaning up some monsters in the streets, we make sure the order always works instead of depending on the random order of players. This is something that can happen naturally, we just allow it more often.

2) In addition, if players are in the same space, the first player can determine the order of each individual phase. For example, if Wendy and Michael are in the same location, Michael can fight the monster, sharing any items of course, so Wendy can move and/or do her thing. I originally made these rules because some of the players want the option to travel around together, like Dungeons and Dragons.

3) Yes, this makes the game slightly easier. To balance, and this is irrelevant to the question at hand, we restrict investigators to using their powers more than once per turn. This brings Wendy and Daisy more into line. In addition, powers that help can only be used in the same world or village. This drops Leo and Mandy down a notch too. We also allow, Vincent to heal another player in the same village instead of merely in his own space.

4) The increased opportunity for cooperation has hardly broken the game. In fact, most of the time these options are ignored (paragraph 2 has never been invoked.) Here's why. If you travel around together, one player is essentially not fully utilizing his turn. Turns are the most precious commodity in the game, IMO. While all this makes fighting monsters a tad easier, other important things are not being accomplished.

Hm... so, a combined combat. I don't play this way, but it could be fun to come up with some rules. Off the top of my head:

Combat Begins

Players make an evade check if they choose to as normal. Each player may choose to run or fight. ("Screw you, buddy, I'm out of here!")

Both players make horror checks (which could balance it out. I'm much more frightened of sanity loss than losing the combat, usually).

Both players make combat checks. If the total number of successes is equal or greater to the monster's toughness, it is toast. If they fail, both investigators take full stamina damage.

And so on as normal...

I dunno. It could be broken, as I'm thinking they'd take down the Dunwhich horror a lot easier, but I do like the cooperative spirit of it. Maybe add something like if someone gets no successes, they take the stamina damage whether or not the monster is bagged by the other guy.

Of course, whose turn this takes place on eludes me. I have no idea how to make that work, unless an investigator could "Ready" their turn, and wait for another investigator to show up.

Graksnor said:

Yes, this sounds like what i was trying to think of. I thought it might work the other way as well, with monsters able to gang up on an investigator in the same manner.

Okay, well, hopefully they only face one monster at a time during that rumor "The Terrible Experiment" or else they are toast! Unless they gang up on the monsters all together. This could actually be really cool. It could provide for some fairly epic fights, even before the Ancient One shows up.

So, if one investigator vs. multiple monsters: (Rough draft, this could use some help)

He can make evade check, but must evade both as normal.

Then, make horror checks, one after the other, but otherwise as normal (except there are more than one of them.)

Then, the investigator chooses whether to try and take down some combination of them at once or just target one. If he targets one, he makes his attack as normal, and if he fails, they do stamina damage to him as normal. The untargeted monsters all do stamina damage as if he had failed combat checks against him.

Or, if he chooses to try for a combination killing, he adds their combat modifiers and toughnesses, and treats it like a monster with the combined combat modifier and toughness. So a Star Spawn and a Cultist would be a -2 combat modifier, toughness 4 monster. If he succeeds, he ices both of them, but if he fails, he takes the combined combat damage (four, I think, in this case).

Now, if multiple monsters vs. multiple investigators, combine the above rules. So everyone makes all horror checks (this would be awful) and then any survivors decide which combinations to attack. So if three investigators A, B and C are in a street with a cultist, a star spawn, and a riot, then they may each choose which combination to attack or support. So Investigator A could attack cultist and riot for a -3 4 toughness, but be supported by investigator B who attacks star spawn and riot for -7 7 toughness, and adds support from investigator C who only wants to attack the star spawn and half of the dice would go to... oh dear, I think I've gone cross eyed.

Okay, so I think I see why Fantasy Flight never made rules for group combats.

Graksnor said:

Ha ha, it was holding up really well untill things started to get too crazy!

It's always made sense to me thematically that all the monsters in any location would hit you at the same time and that all the investigators in the same square could help each other.

The rules for Arkham Investigations allow for joint combat. However, you collect "toughness tokens" instead of the monster token at the end of the battle and the monster tokens go back in the monster bag. The overall rules can be found here homepage.mac.com/nephilim/arkham_investigations/rules.html but here are the salient points for this discussion (all quoted from the rules).

[Arkham Investigators] allows players to help each other fight and cooperate towards game goals, but also allows monsters to cooperate against the investigators.

Toughness Tokens
These are placed on monsters during combat to track their toughness, and claimed as trophies by players instead of monster chits.

Monsters and Movement
In order to allow investigators to team up against monsters (see “New Combat Rules” below), players who end their movement in a location with a monster may elect to spend a clue token to defer encountering the monster until the end of the movement phase, allowing other investigators to come help. Each investigator that arrives must in turn spend a clue token to allow any further investigators to arrive.

New Combat Rules
When combat is joined in any location, all investigators in that location become part of the combat (whether they want to or not), and may use clue tokens to help each other during the fight. Combat follows this sequence:

1) Any investigator wishing to flee the battle must successfully evade all the monsters. Otherwise, he remains in the fray, and cannot attack this round. If any monsters have the Ambush ability, investigators cannot flee.

2) For the first combat round only, each investigator who did not successfully flee must make a Horror check, losing sanity as described in the core rules, for each monster.

3) In turn, each investigator may divide his combat check dice among a number of monsters no greater than his current unadjusted Fight skill. If any of the monsters being fought have immunities or resistances, the investigator may choose which dice are applied to which foe. (For instance, an investigator may apply all of his Fight Skill dice against a monster with magical immunity, and all the dice from a magical weapon against a normal monster.)

4) The investigator then rolls his dice against each monster as a Combat check, modified by the target monster’s Combat check modifier. Both the investigator and other investigators in the same combat may contribute clue tokens to the success of any of these rolls. Overwhelming monsters do damage as usual when attacked.

5) If the rolled successes against a monster exceeds the monster’s remaining toughness, the investigator slays the monster, and takes toughness tokens equal to the monster’s toughness (unless the creature is endless, in which case no toughness tokens are earned). Otherwise, any successes rolled are deducted from that monster’s toughness, weakening it. Place toughness tokens on the monster to keep track of the toughness lost.

6) After the investigator is done rolling, he or she takes Stamina damage from any Overwhelming monsters not attacked that round.

7) Once all investigators have had a chance to attack or flee, the attack damage is totaled for all remaining monsters and divided evenly among the investigators (rounding up). All remaining monsters’ toughness is returned to its original value - remove all toughness tokens from the monsters - and the sequence is begun again, repeating until all monsters (or investigators) have been defeated.

Toughness Tokens
Toughness tokens are collected when monsters are killed instead of taking the monster chip. Toughness tokens may be spent just like monster toughness normally is – each monster token counts as a monster with one toughness. When defeated, all monster cup monsters return to the monster cup, unless the rules on the monster or in the casebook say otherwise (such as being returned to the box).

placeboeffect said:

Wow! How often does this happen in your average games, or how many games do you have to play before this happens?

I haven't had a chance to play through a casebook yet. I just thought the rules that it uses for cooperative combat were relevant to the discussion and I hadn't seen it mentioned yet. I hope to play through a casebook this weekend. It seems like a lot of steps to go through, but I'm sure after a couple of turns I'll get the hang of it (I hope).

I do like the idea (in theory anyway) that the monsters get to gang up on you. I always picture that they are waiting in line to attack you in normal play, like in an old Kung Fu movie. And if they get to all fight you at once, there would be some cases where the investigators would have to join forces to succeed.

I always though it might be neat if some of the monsters fought each other as well. Not because they are in any way pro-humanity, just because they like killin' anything that gets in their way. Or certain dimension monsters hate each other on general princpal. Just a passing thought though.

Monsters fighting each other would definitely make thematic sense, especially in some cases, like Moon Beasts and Ghouls, or Gugs and Ghasts. Or Yithians and Star Spawn, or Elder things and Shoggoths... the list really goes on. Also, I think a lot of the monsters, like zombies, would just attack anything they run across.