Does this mean we can reasonably expect to see Decimator + Shuttle(s) lists dominating in the near future?

Dominating? I doubt it. Will it do well? Probably. The VT-49 stat value is right between the named and generic YT-1300. So it should be good, but not overpowered.

Kenkirk + Determination + Isard + Gunner (54)

2x Omicron Group Pilot + Fire-Control System (46)

This list looks pretty good if you can fly the Lambdas, which some more advanced players have figured out.

Fat Falcons evolved to combat the 'Broken' Phantoms. Fix the root cause of the situation and any other problems will slowly go away

Might as well go the whole hog:

Kenkirk + Predator + Isard + Vader (or Rebel Captive if you're scared) + Gunner + Engine

OGP x2

Kills Phantoms and Falcons alike.

I never knew winning and playing for fun was mutually exclusive.

Well, when you're incapable of doing anything but crying about 3po, they are.

Time for you to learn some new words.

"Ad hominem"

If you PM me I will explain it to you. -s-l-o-w-l-y.

I'll PM you right after you learn basic english grammar.

I speak English, Dutch and German. (plus fluent bollocks)

You?

I tried to learn German and failed. Then I tried Dutch and failed. At least I can fall back on Bollocks!

It's hard to learn German and Dutch when every German and Dutch person you meet already speaks better english than you.

12 pages is ridiculous. You're not going to change any of the cards arguing. Fat falcons and it's varients were already known to be a problem by many people back in feb/mar. Some people still refuse to believe it even after they are predominantly winning and placing in tournaments. There are a slew of reasons why they are so good right now. That also has nothing to do with what's popular at winning tournaments. C3po is not overpowered but he is ideal on the falcon. The fat falcon is going to get better with the next wave of releases. Honestly it's annoying because this was an obvious power creep. So instead of arguing deal with the fat falcons for the next 4 months being overpowered and said until the cheap wave 6 swarm ships to knock it off it's pedestal. That's the only previewed release that I see changing the meta right now.

Been seeing a lot of weak arguments against, ranging from 'He's the World Champion it doesn't matter what list I play I will lose!' to 'L2P Noob just shoot it more with guns!'. Still not convinced. 2 guaranteed evades on a Falcon is anti-fun, and has to go.

Might as well go the whole hog:

Kenkirk + Predator + Isard + Vader (or Rebel Captive if you're scared) + Gunner + Engine

OGP x2

= 105 points

With 2-4 ships in your list, or, after a few casualties.

It suddenly doesn't seem so SIMPLE.

Bring more ships, I would suggest, I guess. I usually play a swarm. I learned pretty early on that more ships is more shots is more opportunities to hurt your opponent.

Look guys, I'm not claiming to be a great player, the message I'm trying to make is, relish the challenge. Adapt. Overcome.

My favourite ship in the game to blow up (just barely winning out over Luke's X-wing) is an expensive YT loaded with crew. Is it difficult to destroy? Yeah, but it's sure fun though.

Been seeing a lot of weak arguments against, ranging from 'He's the World Champion it doesn't matter what list I play I will lose!' to 'L2P Noob just shoot it more with guns!'. Still not convinced. 2 guaranteed evades on a Falcon is anti-fun, and has to go.

I'm (still) trying to untangle your logic, and I still don't get it. It looks something like this:

(1) Fat Falcon builds are powerful.

(2) Fat Falcon builds sometimes include Threepio.

(...) ???

(N) Therefore, Threepio should be banned.

I genuinely have no idea what could go in place of that "???". My problem with this entire thread remains that you haven't even made the case that Threepio is overpowered, let alone that the only way to deal with it is to ban him (at least from standard play).

ETA: That is, in a Fat Falcon build, why is Threepio necessarily the overpowered element? What leads you to believe that Fat Falcons would suddenly fall out of fashion if Threepio were no longer available? It's hard to counter you with factual evidence or logical argument when you haven't provided either for your own position.

Been seeing a lot of weak arguments against, ranging from 'He's the World Champion it doesn't matter what list I play I will lose!' to 'L2P Noob just shoot it more with guns!'. Still not convinced. 2 guaranteed evades on a Falcon is anti-fun, and has to go.

"Anti-fun" is a very dangerous phrase.

Should we ban Phantoms because they are "anti-fun" for X-wing pilots? How about TIE swarms? Those are "anti-fun" for people who fly Falcons. Out with them too, then?

What exactly does "anti-fun" mean, and where do you draw the line?

ETA: That is, in a Fat Falcon build, why is Threepio necessarily the overpowered element? What leads you to believe that Fat Falcons would suddenly fall out of fashion if Threepio were no longer available? It's hard to counter you with factual evidence or logical argument when you haven't provided either for your own position.

Couldn't agree more. As I said earlier in the thread, Han Shoots First, Chewie Tank & Double Falcon lists were around and very popular long before C3PO even existed.

The increase in the number of Falcons fielded is more a reaction to the increasing number of arc dodgers in the game than it is due to the availability of the C3PO card (which as you kindly reiterated Vorpal is by no means used in every single Falcon list out there)

The OP might as well say:

It would make just as much sense...

I think in this context TheTuninator, "anti-fun" means "something Darth Ruin doesn't like".

It's been said earlier, but deserves to be repeated: The OP expressed an opinion on the game. He wasn't attacking anyone. He wasn't personal. He was simply expressing a dislike for a certain feature of a game I'm guessing he even bought and paid for.

I think it's a great thread, A) because there SHOULD be room for just that type of discussion, and B) because it makes it quite clear who can actually handle such a discussion in a mature and constructive manner, in stead of degenerating into that undoubtedly warm and fuzzy neanderthal state where you just stroke your own ego and try to make a name for yourself in the herd by punching on the elected victim of the moment in various 'creative' ways. It is even spilling into other threads. "Noo...we should also ban [insert random item from X-wing the miniatures game], haw haw haw, am I the clever one, eh? Eh?".

Threepio is obviously just a scapegoat. When one or more parts of a combo are problematic, you look for the one that has the most prolific usage and try to eliminate it. Everybody here knows that the most common element in Fat YT lists is the YT, so why is nobody advocating removing turreted ships from the game? I know why: because whether we like it or not, it's an integral part of the game, and removing it would be silly. Banning other cards isn't just a poor solution, it's no solution at all.

As shocking as this is I agree with vorpal c3po isn't overpowered However ur is extremely points efficient on the falcon. Falcons are not popular because if arc dodgers. Han shoots first wasn't the most popular rebel list when wave 4 previewed. The z95, change in tournament rules and to a degree c3po all lead to the falcon being more powerful. The swarm is really the Achilles heal of falcon lists and ffg has been trying way to hard to push the meta away from multiple cheap ship builds that directly made the falcon better. This sucks but this meta is not changing until wave 6 releases.

Threepio is obviously just a scapegoat. When one or more parts of a combo are problematic, you look for the one that has the most prolific usage and try to eliminate it. Everybody here knows that the most common element in Fat YT lists is the YT, so why is nobody advocating removing turreted ships from the game? I know why: because whether we like it or not, it's an integral part of the game, and removing it would be silly. Banning other cards isn't just a poor solution, it's no solution at all.

100% correct

This sucks but this meta is not changing until wave 6 releases.

What sort of tournaments have you played in since Wave 4 was released? This is a serious question, not an attack on your credibility. In my experience with the meta at major tournaments does not seem to match yours.

Been seeing a lot of weak arguments against, ranging from 'He's the World Champion it doesn't matter what list I play I will lose!' to 'L2P Noob just shoot it more with guns!'. Still not convinced. 2 guaranteed evades on a Falcon is anti-fun, and has to go.

That's a step down from broken.

Once again, what are you flying against these Falcons?

What I want to know is, if Threepio on the Falcon is THAT big of an issue, why aren't you packing Outmaneuver? That is such an obvious direct counter, that I have a tough time taking the argument seriously.

Though, I have a tough time taking just how quickly this thread ballooned seriously as well.

What I want to know is, if Threepio on the Falcon is THAT big of an issue, why aren't you packing Outmaneuver? That is such an obvious direct counter, that I have a tough time taking the argument seriously.

Though, I have a tough time taking just how quickly this thread ballooned seriously as well.

Yeah, as fun as it is to make fun of the OP, a far more constructive response would just have been to post lists you've beaten 3P0 Falcon with...

What I want to know is, if Threepio on the Falcon is THAT big of an issue, why aren't you packing Outmaneuver? That is such an obvious direct counter, that I have a tough time taking the argument seriously.

Outmaneuver does absolutely nothing to counter C-3P0 unless every single ship that attacks C-3P0 has Outmaneuver. Otherwise, it simply delays C-3P0's use until he gets shot at by someone that's not using that specific EPT.

What I want to know is, if Threepio on the Falcon is THAT big of an issue, why aren't you packing Outmaneuver? That is such an obvious direct counter, that I have a tough time taking the argument seriously.

Outmaneuver does absolutely nothing to counter C-3P0 unless every single ship that attacks C-3P0 has Outmaneuver. Otherwise, it simply delays C-3P0's use until he gets shot at by someone that's not using that specific EPT.

...meanwhile 3PO is just standing by not being used...

What I want to know is, if Threepio on the Falcon is THAT big of an issue, why aren't you packing Outmaneuver? That is such an obvious direct counter, that I have a tough time taking the argument seriously.

Outmaneuver does absolutely nothing to counter C-3P0 unless every single ship that attacks C-3P0 has Outmaneuver. Otherwise, it simply delays C-3P0's use until he gets shot at by someone that's not using that specific EPT.

...meanwhile 3PO is just standing by not being used...

He can only get used once per round, so unless he would have prevented the killing blow that would have removed the 13th HP from the Falcon, it's completely irrelevant.

The only way that this would matter, is if you split your fire and you are NOT focusing down the Falcon, and only attacking it with Outmaneuver ships instead. In which case it's 1 armor instead of 2, and against far fewer attacks.

"We need to ban this part of the game!"

Don't be a whiny ninny, OP. Come on. When you start banning stuff, you start really messing with the meta in a bad way.

The point is, if Threepio is SUCH a big problem that someone thinks he needs banning, then why aren't they using the counters?

Also, I look forward to seeing a Falcon handle 4 HLCs...

As a two cent entry, I and our FLGS crew have been working on planning a 60pt tourney. We looked at some potential lists and said you know, we got to take out the big ships to make this more new-player friendly. Doesn't help we're sold out, so that some don't even have access to Falcons, and we felt that would be unfair as well since we have a plethora of players just starting out that we want to bring in. We began to test the notion before finalizing it, but currently either we kick all large ships for the scenario, or we have to ban 3PO individually. Our findings in two playtest events showed the 'Big Bird' list as basically unstoppable with 3PO on it and the Title card. The lowest it ever got health wise was seven hull remaining, which admittedly it did get to almost every game. I opened a thread on Dakka to submit lists that may beat it at 60 points and there are now two we have to try to make sure of our findings. But among the four of us, at sixty points, the decision to make a restriction was unanimous. We plan to balance it out by having a post wave five release big ship ONLY 60pt event in the future.

I'm not saying the whole game is broken. But if it is so well balanced we shouldn't be seeing this disparity just by reducing the point limit. But this highlights the nature of how the 3PO card is arguably 'OP'. But any format change brings heavy game piece re-evaluation, so take this with a grain of salt.