Riot pls

So you can simultaneously agree with me and disagree? Doublethink, dear chap.

Do yourself a favor, when you want to be taken seriously, don't quote an over used statement from a completely different game. Though I do give you props for not spelling it rito, but really, don't. It isn't funny.

I sure hope there is a counter for "fat YT's" in the near future.

While not broken it sure is boring as can be to see over half of the 'top' lists with "fat YT's."

Just my 2 cts. Peace and happy gaming.

The problem is that both of those lists are massive extremes and winning one might mean losing to the other.

Here's a question. Who actually can fight a phantom with a suboptimal build against it? What build did you use (and why it's bad against the phantom)? And how did you fly to overcome that?

I've played two games against echo in a phantom and toasted him by midgame both times. Two x wings and a Y with an ION turret.

Just made sure than my fire arcs spread out over the board and the Y wing anchored the centre... eventually the hits go in.

Cant see what all the fuss is about myself.

If you struggle against a type of build just vary your tactics until you find the one that works.

i've been in the wargames industry since 2000, a lot of my gaming group are games designers (most of them have worked for both GW and FFG) and we discuss 'games design' a lot. I also used to write games for GW events and open days...

Xwing is possibly the most *balanced* game i've ever played.

while certainly not unbeatable the combination of Chewbacca YT-1300 with C-3PO + MF Title + R2-D2 Crew combined with Draw their fire on an adjacent ship placed second at Gencon and would have been an absolute monster to beat.

Players win GenCon because they're really, really good at X-wing.

Any large ship which can reliably evade 2 damage every turn are not appropriate at the 100 point level.

I guess you want to ban the IG-2000 before it's even released then.

My Vessery with Outmaneuver and HLC eats C-3POs for breakfast. No Agility = no C-3PO.

My Vessery with Outmaneuver and HLC eats C-3POs for breakfast. No Agility = no C-3PO.

Anything with two attack dice or more eats C-3PO's for breakfast, so long as you throw enough of them at him. So, yeah - that's pretty much everything in the Imperial Navy then.

C3PO (all but) guarantees ONE evade, per turn. ONE.

This is really not all that difficult to deal with, folks.

I guess you want to ban the IG-2000 before it's even released then.

Why stop here? Let's ban Firesprays too. After all, they have two defence dice as standard, the Evade action as standard and can take PtL, Stealth Device and Recon Specialist.. they're cheaper than the Fat Falcon too! OMG WTF OP BAN PLZ.

C3PO (all but) guarantees ONE evade, per turn. ONE.

This is really not all that difficult to deal with, folks.

Gee. Good to know. So it was in fact super-coincidence so many YT's showed up at the top tables eh?

Or was it luck? Enlighten me.

On a less sarcastic note;

No. it is not OP. But it *is* a bit too good. (IMO)

And it shows by top players bringing the exact same ship to top tournaments.

Gee. Good to know. So it was in fact super-coincidence so many YT's showed up at the top tables eh?

Or was it luck? Enlighten me.

This has been discussed many times throughout this thread. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp. A lot of people are taking Falcon builds at the moment. It's popular. It's relatively forgiving. So the more Falcon lists that are fielded, the more likely it will be that some of them will reach the top tables and end up in a winning position.

To put it another way - if you had a tournament of 24 people, and all them decided to field Falcons, then OF COURSE the winning list/top tables would feature Falcons.

TL;DR? People are using Falcons. Deal with it.

Edit: And to blow even more holes in what for want of a better word we shall call your argument - Falcon lists being popular isn't exactly a new thing. Han Shoots First was a popular list before C3PO. Chewie Tanks were popular before C3PO. Dual Falcon Fortresses were popular before C3PO. Of the people who are (still) using Falcons builds now, how many of them are actually using C3PO?

But hey - this is an internet forum. Let's not let trivial details like, say, facts and supporting evidence get in the way of a good old-fashioned bout of hyperbolic herdrage.

Why stop here? Let's ban Firesprays too. After all, they have two defence dice as standard, the Evade action and can take PtL, Stealth Device and Recon Specialist.. they're cheaper than the Fat Falcon too! OMG WTF OP BAN PLZ.

Oh but they don't have a killer dial and a 360 turret!!!

Q_Q

This thread is pants-on-head crazy and I can't believe its hit 11 pages.

C-3PO only grants you 1 evade a turn. That is hilariously easy to overcome. But wait! If you use an evade action, then you get 2(!) evades a turn! ::gasp::

If a falcon is using an action to evade, they aren't boosting. If they aren't boosting, they aren't getting out of arc and are getting shot at more. If a falcon is evading, they aren't modifying their attack. The falcon pays lots and lots of points for a single 3-die attack. At best, C-3PO might keep the ship around for one extra round to roll 1 more 3-die unmodified attack.

The overuse of Falcons really has nothing to do with C-3PO. I guarantee if C-3PO didn't exist, we would still be in a Falcon-heavy meta just because of the Phantom. Once more people figure that thing out, Falcon use will naturally drop off.

This thread is pants-on-head crazy and I can't believe its hit 11 pages.

C-3PO only grants you 1 evade a turn. That is hilariously easy to overcome. But wait! If you use an evade action, then you get 2(!) evades a turn! ::gasp::

I agree entirely. C3PO + Millennium Falcon = a 46+ point ship that can ignore the firepower of a SINGLE TIE FIGHTER PER TURN. (assuming of course it's not stressed, blocked or a number of other alternate scenarios...)

I don't think so - C3p0 has weaknesses, the most important being once per round. This means he can be dealt with appropriately. If you see 3p0 - you have to attack the ship more than once per round. When you go 1v1 against 3p0, you're losing a 5/8ths of a hit (rarely more) per round. As a result, 3p0 has to be dealt with before you get into a 1v1 situation.

The falcon with 3p0 is 45-49 points and using a crew space that could be given to another card. That means you're facing 2-5 ships, with either some other major elite , a couple competent fighters or up to 4 z-95s. The opponent is paying for the fat falcon with a loss of hp, and a loss of offensive power.

Knowing this - we counter 3p0 by firing often and using large caliber weapons. Swarms, Phantoms, HLC, ATP will all help. Try not to end up in an endgame vs the fat falcon especially if you're flying 2 attack ships. 3p0 is not some uncounterable, broken card.

Haven't read all of the posts - so I apologize if this has been said before

Let me see if I have everything straight...

The C3-P0 crew card allows you to predict how many evades you will roll when you roll the evade dice (once per turn) so by guessing 0 you can always get one evade but you will also ONLY get one evade. (This doesn't have to be the FIRST attack)

The Millenium Falcon title card adds the evade action to your action bar.

Is it me or are the numerous "counters" to evading Falcons? (or evading anything else for that matter)

Outmaneuver, Wedge, Backstabber are the first 3 I can think of off the top of my head during a lunch hour. If you don't roll that evade dice 3PO doesn't get to use his ability. More ships shooting means more defense rolls, once you've spent your evade and your 3PO you're down to one dice and even Tie's can score against that (back to swarms again?)

If your Falcon evades then it can't focus or Target Lock, thus reducing offensive output but giving you more tank. But if a ship is relying on tank then couldn't you shoot something else?

Ban a crew card or errata it to fit? No I don't think so....

If everybody and his uncle bring the Falcon to tournaments, that's boring. But I don't think it is the fault of C3PO. The Falcon has the best dial, is a large ship and has a 360° fire arc. It can pick its target, however nimble it may be. This is an asset in a tournament with limited time. In the end, every list with a bit of firepower will beat any list that contains a falcon. But in a tournament of 1 hour, you are not likely to see that end. The problem is aggravated with two Falcons (almost as galling as bringing two Tie Advanced). You have to be very fast to kill a Falcon in an hour. Two Falcons have no problem at all to kill something in an hour.

Not fair - your 50 point ship was able to ignore half of the damage from my range 3 academy pilot. Must ban him.

Have you guys considered that this bonus is essentially nullified at range 3? Keeping your ships at range 3 of the falcon both helps your own ships, and also nullifies C-3PO.

The problem is aggravated with two Falcons (almost as galling as bringing two Tie Advanced). You have to be very fast to kill a Falcon in an hour. Two Falcons have no problem at all to kill something in an hour.

See, that's a statement I can agree with. If anything needs to be banned, it's the ability to use Han/Chewie/Lando in the same list.

Gee. Good to know. So it was in fact super-coincidence so many YT's showed up at the top tables eh?

Or was it luck? Enlighten me.

This has been discussed many times throughout this thread. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp. A lot of people are taking Falcon builds at the moment. It's popular. It's relatively forgiving. So the more Falcon lists that are fielded, the more likely it will be that some of them will reach the top tables and end up in a winning position.

To put it another way - if you had a tournament of 24 people, and all them decided to field Falcons, then OF COURSE the winning list/top tables would feature Falcons.

TL;DR? People are using Falcons. Deal with it.

Edit: And to blow even more holes in what for want of a better word we shall call your argument - Falcon lists being popular isn't exactly a new thing. Han Shoots First was a popular list before C3PO. Chewie Tanks were popular before C3PO. Dual Falcon Fortresses were popular before C3PO. Of the people who are (still) using Falcons builds now, how many of them are actually using C3PO?

But hey - this is an internet forum. Let's not let trivial details like, say, facts and supporting evidence get in the way of a good old-fashioned bout of hyperbolic herdrage.

Feel free to ignore the ENTIRE SECOND PART of my post.

It makes you look so much more clever.

edit: posted my very own entire post. Including the bits you so conveniently ignored.

Makes it easier for you perhaps?

Gee. Good to know. So it was in fact super-coincidence so many YT's showed up at the top tables eh?

Or was it luck? Enlighten me.

On a less sarcastic note;

No. it is not OP. But it *is* a bit too good. (IMO)

And it shows by top players bringing the exact same ship to top tournaments.

The next person who starts a 'We need to ban such and such' thread should be banned from the forum.

If people took half the energy they waste complaining about stuff and used it towards figuring out how to tackle the issue ... ...

You know how you combat Threepio? Focus fire. Shoot him more than once a round. SIMPLE.

Welfstar; it is would be as simple as you claim to be;

Why is it so many Falcons end up being played by the best players and ending up so high?

-> ergo; my point is that is is NOT as simple. OP? Nope. A bit *too* good?

I think so, and it seems to me that top players agree.

(disclaimer; i do not claim to be a top player. I just agree with them that YT-builds are over-prevalent given their lack of hard counters.)

Perhaps I am wrong. If you feel that way: enlighten me.

You know how you combat Threepio? Focus fire. Shoot him more than once a round. SIMPLE.

With 2-4 ships in your list, or, after a few casualties.

It suddenly doesn't seem so SIMPLE.

Feel free to ignore the ENTIRE SECOND PART of my post...

I addressed your entire post, I simply quoted the first line. Just like I'm doing now.

Why is it so many Falcons end up being played by the best players and ending up so high?

Argument addressed and refuted already above. Talk about ignorance...

For the love of the force.... everybody please stop.

To be honest, I think the argument against C3PO can be resolved quite easily:

"Less QQ, more pew pew".

Feel free to ignore the ENTIRE SECOND PART of my post...

I addressed your entire post, I simply quoted the first line. Just like I'm doing now.

Why is it so many Falcons end up being played by the best players and ending up so high?

Argument addressed and refuted already above. Talk about ignorance...

Funny. I feel you did NOT refute the *fact* that top players use the Falcon.

For the simple reason these top players perceive the Falcon as the strongest contender to win tournaments.

Thanks for the condescending tone btw. It makes it so much easier to put your "arguments" into the proper perspective.

[edit; typo]

Funny. I feel you did NOT refute the *fact* that top players use the Falcon.

For the simple reason these top players perceive the Falcon as the strongest contender to win tournaments.

Less QQ, more pew pew Elkerlyc.