Hey everybody! Three friends came over this weekend and we played through our first game. Here are the thoughts and experiences from the game:

• Most of my cards were in Spanish = Only Cthulu can be used = Oh crap.
• Got attacked by rats, should have brought my cat; what was his name again? Eaten, luckily I am only lost in time and space...
• Michael McGlen, could you be crazier? Ends up in the Asylum every 15 minutes. Tommy Gun was well worth it.
• The turn order is really confusing; read through the manual 3 times per person and still didn't figure it out until after the game was finished.
• Pizza & Beer = Necessary
• Since we are all noobs, the house said that finishing a beer was worth a clue. Still didn't help.
• My character was Mandy Thompson--a good all around character. I received the Sword of Glory as my unique item. Win.
• Do sucesses on re-rolls stack with the original rolls'?
• Didn't read through the instructions well enough; terror level hit 9 before we figured it out. Only 2 hours into the game at that point.
• Terror level = no limit cap = no one wants to leave their location anymore. We all just waited for Cthulu to revive.
• Wait, what's the difference between closing a gate and sealing it? Crap.
• Wait, how many gates do we have to seal? Doesn't matter, we only sealed 3.
• I wish my chair was more comfortable.
• ARGH UPKEEP ARGH!
• I'll get a bank loan to prepare for the apocolypse. Do I have to pay it off if we win?
• Is there any reliable way to earn money?
• OMG RUMORS!
• I hope there's a money tree somewhere, cause I don't have any.

The manual needs work; one would think that a game based on the works of a literary icon would have a manual that was well written. This one was ill suited for mid-game research.

Overall a very well made game. A lot of fun to play; we certianly had no trouble sitting through a 6 1/2 hour game. Definitely worth while. I received a replacement deck in the mail today. We are planning to have another run at it this weekend. This time two of us will have the experience of playing again, and our intentions are to bout Shub-Niggurath.

Was the rulebook in Spanish, too? Because if it was then I can't really comment on it, I've never read it in Spanish. :-)

The English one I found fine, picked it up quite quickly ... What was the main problem you had with it?

Motoma said:

Mandy is the best of the base game. Not sure what you mean by stack. If you use clues to add to the original rules, then you can re-roll the failures with her.

Closing a gate is usually a fight or lore check. Sealing a gate takes clues tokens, usually 5.

Each outstanding bank loan costs you a victory point, No big deal.

The most reliable way to earn money is to exchange blood for money at the River Docks. It's a shady deal though. The most common way is to get a job at the Newspaper.

Money tree? Real money for more expansions? I know of no money tree in Arkham or anywhere else for that matter.

Everyone complains about the manual.

6 1/2 hours. Wow!

Shub is my nemisis. Good Luck

I agree with Motoma about the rulebook. It is a mess. And I've played this game about five million times.

It's quite well organized when it explains Game Setup, and even for parts of the turn sequence, but it tends to shunt a lot of things off to the end and has a big 'miscellaneous' section. If you have a very specific rules question, it's often difficult to find the answer to it. The index is far from comprehensive.

For example, here's one that me and my regular group (all AH veterans) got arguing about a while ago, because we mixed with another group who were doing things differently: when you defeat a monster that appears from an Other World encounter, do you get to keep it as a trophy? I think the correct answer is no, but you have to really study the rulebook to work it out. The ordinary combat rules make no mention of the exception, and even the paragraph at the back of the rulebook (helpfully filed under 'miscellaneous') seems to directly contradict itself.

If it's any consolation, Motoma, the game rules themselves just as twisted once you do understand them! There are lots of odd rules and extra game mechanics where things are handled in asymmetric or illogical ways. You get used to it. Your 'clues for booze' house rule is a good coping mechanism. Likewise, I wouldn't worry about your cards being in Spanish, since most of them make no sense in English anyway. Especially not in the Dark Pharaoh expansion.

Successes on re-rolls don't stack with successes on the original roll (presumably you're thinking of Mandy Thomson's ability here). And most players agree that the safest way to earn money is to have encounters at the Newspaper. There are quite a few encounters which give you free money or a Retainer, although it's a bit less predictable than the River Docks ability.

Stenun said:

Stenun said:

No, thank heavens!

Stenun said:

Briefly: It was written in a meandering way. Yes, there is a lot to cover, but plitting related topics up and placing them 10 pages apart makes things really difficult when you are in the middle of a game trying to find a certain piece of information. The addition of an index would be excellent. Additionally, there were a number of places where rules were illustrated, yet never described in paragraph form. Closing and sealing gates is a prominent example.

After playing through our first game, both my friend and I went through the manual again and found that the descriptions, when added to the diffiuclties we had, clarified things. The next game should go over a lot smoother.

Cheers!

Fair enough. Sorry you had difficulties but I'm glad you're prepared to have another game, it's well worth getting in to!

I don't really remember my first game, at least not the specifics of it. I do know it was, inevitably, slow but I don't remember any difficulties per se. Although to be fair I did learn it with a group of people with other 100 years of gaming experience between them. And even then I later found out they did get at least one thing wrong.

thecorinthian said:

thecorinthian said:

Well that would explain why the endgame seemed to go easier than anyone expected. But after 6 hours of dealing with my cackling, my comrades really needed a win.

I guess I should really go through and read the locations before my next play through; it appears that there was a way to make money and I was just ignoring it.

Thanks for the tips!

As an aside, is the quote feature bugged, or am I just "doing it wrong"?

thecorinthian said:

Unique Ability : Research - Any Phase: Once per turn, Mandy can activate this ability after any investigator (including herself) makes a skill check. That investigator then re-rolls all of the dice rolled for that check that did not result in successes.

mmmm. Have I been playing it wrong all this time?

mageith said:

I think Corinthian meant normally, they don't stack, Mandy breaks the rule (as well as her bra ).

thecorinthian said:

thecorinthian said:

I mean absolutely no disrespect here Corinthian, as I am sure you have played many more games of Arkham Horror than I have but I believe you are incorrect in your interpretation of these above rules. There is nothing wrong with this and the designer of the game himself wrote that it was made to be adaptable and you should roll with whatever rules you and your group like, or enhance the game for you. Play it the way you want !

As far as re-rolls and success stacking here is the actual investigator sheet text for Mandy.

Unique Ability: Research - Any Phase: Once per turn, Mandy can activate this ability after any investigator (including herself) makes a skill check. That investigator then re-rolls all of the dice rolled for that check that did not result in successes.

So lets look at what that really means, you're only re-rolling the dice that were not successes in the first place, so how can they not "stack" ?

What would be the point of the ability if they didnt "stack"? Just to reroll if you didnt like the original outcome?

Example of how this ability is supossed to work:

Say you're making a combat check and are rolling 3 dice after all modifiers are taken into account. Lets say the monster you're fighting has 2 toughness so you're needing 2 success to kill it. You toss your bones and end up with a 5, 3, 1 meaning one success. You curse your bad luck as you can't kill the beastie, BUT WAIT ! YOUR FRIEND IS PLAYING MANDY...he/she activates Mandy's ability hoping to save you from a trip to St. Mary's. You would keep the 5, and re-roll only the 3 and 1 the "dice rolled for that check that did not result in successes." Lets say after you reroll those dice you end up with a 6, and a 2. Your resulting skill check after using Mandy's ability would be 5,6,2 (two successes) and the monster would be defeated. Definately a powerful special ability.

As far as monsters in encounters, specifically the manual states:

For example, one of the Black Cave encounters states “A monster appears!” and one of the Hibb’s Roadhouse encounters states “A
horrible monster appears!” When a monster but not a gate appears in an encounter, the monster does not stay on the board. If such a monster is defeated, players may take it as a trophy (unless its special ability says otherwise). If the monster is not defeated, it is returned to the monster cup, regardless of whether the investigator evades the monster or is knocked unconscious or driven insane by it.

Now, that does state you may take a monster a trophy unless it is "endless" as per the monster special ability. You may be thinking that it does not specifically describe any "other world encounters" and may not apply, however, elsewhere in the same paragraph about Monster Encounters it states the following:

Many location and Other World encounters indicate that a monster appears. To resolve such an encounter, the player must draw a monster from the monster cup and resolve the encounter as normal .

So you resolve Other World monster encounters "as normal" meaning you may take them a trophy if defeated, but if evaded or should they somehow subdue you I.E. (send you to St. Mary's or Arkham Asylum) they do not remain on the board.

I think in most cases the manual is perfectly clear if you really take the time to read and understand it. During the heat of gaming looking something up can be a little cumbersome I do agree, which is why I read the rules 3 times on 3 different days before I even attempted a first playthrough.

Again all that being said, I do not in any way mean to convey any type of superior rules knowledge or "call anybody out" these are just the rules as I see and interpret them. You should adapt the game for you and your group's fullest enjoyment.

Motoma said:

Motoma said:

I can't believe I never thought of that. I am so making a Guardian for that.

Re the rulebook, I know there are handy flowcharts out there, but has anyone attempted a comprehesive re-write of the rulebook to make it clearer?

edited to add: Thank you Fantasy Flight forums for re-inserting the entire quote above the one line that I meant to respond to.

I'm having problems with the quote feature as well, can't seem to quote just one part of something someone said without having to quote the entire post. This could be intentional, not allowing you to quote someone out of context, but it is annoying either way

Actually I never heard the interpretation that players cannot take Other World monters as trophies, nor have I ever considered it was otherwise. I reviewed the rules and can see that it's not perfectly and clearly stated that you do, but also I can't see any indication that you wouldn't take them as trophies either. It would be interesting to know the citation that hints that you cannot take Other world creatures as trophies.

I've often wondered what a monster trophy was anyway? I suppose dragging a Gug all through Unknown Kadath would actually be a superhuman effort. And why would you?

I know its a pain just trying to drag a Gug from the Library to the science building. Bloody Black Knapsack and all.

=====================

The quote feature is a bit cumbersome. If I'm going to quote but part of another, I just make sure I don't delete the beginning and ending

The double quote happens to me if I'm told when I go to publish that someone has responed but I go ahead and publish anyway. Then I have to edit and delete the extraneous material.

Vaxsythrakul said:

You're right about Mandy Thompson, and of course that is how I'd usually play it as well; I'd just forgotten exactly what it did because I haven't used the character in a while. As for the monster trophy thing: this is a thorny one, and I'm afraid that although you're interpreting the rules in a very sensible way, the later official 'ruling' illogically goes in the opposite direction: that you don't get Other World encounter monsters as trophies. For the sake of completeness, I think the relevent sections of the rulebook are:

Page 15 , section 2B 'Fight' - "If the investigator passes the combat check, he defeats the monster. The investigator's player removes the marker from the board and places it in front of him as a monster trophy." No qualifiers or exceptions there; the game's default rules is that if you kill it, you keep it.

Then, on Page 22 , under 'Monsters in Encounters': "No matter how the encounter is resolved, the monster is never left on the board. The monster is returned to the monster cup, regardless of whether the investigator evades or defeats the monster, or is knocked unconscious or driven insane by it." The key word there is 'or defeats', which seems to override the normal procedure on p.15 and send the monster back to the cup even if it's beaten.

BUT in the very next paragraph on p.22, we get: "When a monster but not a gate appears in an encounter, the monster does not stay on the board. If such a monster is defeated, players may take it as a trophy (unless its special ability says otherwise)."

That seems, to me, to directly contradict the rule from about twelve lines above it! But then, like I say, I think there's been an FAQ about this and it was decided that you can't keep OW monsters as trophies (even though that's probably the craziest interpretation of the rules as written). Or maybe it went the other way...I don't remember! I usually try to evade the fuckers. But either way, that's why I said the rulebook itself is confusing.

And as for disrespecting me....hehehehe. .I wouldn't worry about that! I've got a few "eccentric" ideas about AH, as I'm sure you'll discover if you keep reading these boards. Even if the official rulebook is very clear, and all the forum regulars agree, and Kevin Wilson himself appears to explain how it works, I sometimes still think people can be doing it 'wrong'....

mageith said:

I've always considered trophies "reputation". Since Lovecraft in general has always been in "dark corners", you'd think the Arkham populace is generally unaware of the sludge the Investigators are bathing in. But that doesn't mean that the more saavy citizens haven't "heard things".

Sheriff Engle hears you've been doing quite of bit of vigillante street patrol--not to mention that "disturbance" at the University--and he'd rather you be on the payroll instead of getting in the way of procedure. "At least until the streets calm down a little."

Someone at Ma's approaches you about some of the crazy rumors he's heard. Once you tell him some of it's true, he steels his gaze and says, "Show me."

But in some cases, it really depends on the transaction. At the Science Building, I'm sure you actually do drag in a Gug head: "What can you tell me about this, Professor?" At the River Docks: "It's a claw from a thing that had wings and no face." "Yeah...I can find a buyer for that."

That seems to work for all the places that take trophies. You just have to bend the theme around a basic thing-for-thing exchange.

jgt7771 said:

It takes lots of mind bending...

If it's reputation, then I wonder how come for points, you spend your reputation? More mind bending.

That also explains this momentary lapse in the rules pointed out by thecorinthian: Then, on Page 22, under 'Monsters in Encounters': "No matter how the encounter is resolved, the monster is never left on the board. The monster is returned to the monster cup, regardless of whether the investigator evades or defeats the monster, or is knocked unconscious or driven insane by it." The key word there is 'or defeats', which seems to override the normal procedure on p.15 and send the monster back to the cup even if it's beaten.

After all, bringing a Gug's head through the dreamland's or gaining in reputation for acts no one sees is very abstract.

And lugging a Gug... well, I already mentioned that.

mageith said:

I don't understand "points". Do you mean Victory Points? Victory Points is a gameplay device that means absolutely nothing to story. If you mean points as in points of toughness...bigger monsters come with bigger rumors that your Investigator is a badass. "I hear he took down the thing that ate Johnson's cow." "Wow. Maybe we should buy him a beer."

"Very abstract." Well...yeah, I guess. But isn't that what the theme is? There are a hundred different ways to tweak a cold, unfeeling gameplay mechanic into something that feels. In one turn, you trade two monsters for $5 (although not many players actually use the Docks, but that is neither here nor LiTaS). The next turn, you use that $5 to buy yourself something nice: gun, Elder Sign, whatever. Roll that all together, and...

One of those monsters was scaring the girlfriend of one of the "businessmen" on the Docks until you took it out. It got back to this guy, who asked around and found out you'd been poking around quite a bit in creepy places, ultimately making "business" easier for him. He feels he owes you a favor. Later, at the store, you plan to ring up your item, and the shopkeeper waves your money away. Turns out your Dock friend has a stake in the shop, and "your money's no good here."

Abstract as all hell, I guess, but at the end of two turns, the same result is reached.

"Gaining reputation for acts no one sees." That's just the Grapevine. And these Northeastern towns are all about the Grapevine.

"That's quite a scratch." "Yeah." "You didn't have that last week." "Hmph." "You fight a bear?" "Something like that." "Doesn't look like any bear scratch I've ever seen." "You've seen a lot of bear scratches?" "I've seen my share." "Hmph." "And where have you been all week anyway? No one's seen for the last few days." "Elsewhere." "Where elsewhere?" "Look. I'm tired, and I'm thirsty, and my arm hurts like hell. Can I just drink my drink?" "Sure thing, pal."

"So what's his deal?" And the Grapevine comes up with whatever, without knowing you were in R'lyeh fighting angles. Reputation +1.

I suppose my brain is full of stuff and nonsense...but then, I didn't come up with the Arkham Advertiser, so your brain can't be all that far away.

jgt7771 said:

This post really made me LoL.

"You've seen a lot of bear scratches?"

How to you fight an angle anyway? Throw a protractor at it ?