Am I the only one sick of players shooting pistols in melee combat?

Am I missing a rule for "oops I missed and shot my friend!"

If engaged in melee and shoting your foe can he parry the attack (push the barrel in another direction) or only dodge?

Do you get the -20 for shooting into melee if you fire your pistol at the foe you are engaged with in melee?

You can fire but only single shots. No full or semi-auto fire. Also I'd allow someone to 'parry' the pistol although that isn't strickly RAW. You also do not gain any bonus to hit (re: Point Black) -- although Imight have just made that up, but I think that's an actual rule.

The 2.0 errata covers this. As said, single shots only and attacks are made with BS rather than WS. I'd say parrying a pistol would represent knocking it aside before it shoots you, so I'd allow it.

As far as I can see the RAW does not cover shooting your friends.

My house rules:

If the friend is in front of the target, -20% per friend to hit. If you miss by 1% to 20%, you hit that friend.

If the friend is on the side of the target, -10% for friend to hit. If you miss by 1% to 10%, you hit your friend.

If the friend is behind the target, -5% per friend to hit. If you miss by 1% to 5%, you hit your friend.

I draw a line from the center of the shooter's square to the center of the target's square. If it passes thru a friend before hit hits tthe target, the friend is in front. If it passes thru the target before it hits the friend, the friend is behind. Otherwise, the friend is on the side.

Or, simply enough, if the PCs to-hit roll with a pistol in melee is 96-00, not only does it miss and probably jam, but it automatically hits another PC who is in melee combat with the same target.

**** happens. Especially with guns.

Peacekeeper_b said:

I would say Dodge only, which as far as I understand it is what is written in the rules.

I'd argue that parrying a pistol away with the side of a sword or whatever would not be a viable option. A pistol does not have to be held at arms length to be fired, therefore I'd reason that the pistol could be anywhere from right in the target's face, to held back at the hip.

Peacekeeper_b said:

You don't get any modifiers at all to your Ballistic Skill test when using a pistol as a close-combat-weapon in melee.

Headhanger said:

Good point there. Though I imagine a riot shield or some other suitably durable sort of shield could be used to "parry" the shot.

That makes sense. If the shield could normally be used to block the projectile attack you're defending against then I'd say you could try to "parry" the shot with the shield.

Also, if you had Deflect Shot and your opponent was using a primitive pistol then I'd say you could try parrying it as you usually would.

I see the "parry the gun" manuever in enough movies, Id probably allow it anyway, in melee combat that is. Evenif gun is at hip level or something, all you really need to do is nudge the shooter's body in the opposite direction.

So my house rule is yes you can.

I agree. I mean if you can 'Dodge' a shot at you in melee why would you not be able to 'parry' it. (Rules aside, thinking purely cinematic / thematically.) I too say you can parry a shot in melee (as a house rule.)

I'm ok with the idea of parrying a gun shot. It adds mechanical balance, and could be conceptually explained away as was here.

I'm not ok with the idea of saying you can't use pistols in melee. It screws gun focused characters to no end when the insanely powerful charging Daemon runs up on them and they have to pull out a sword if they want to do anything at all.

Just my two cents.

I apologize for the repeat.

Not to stir things up or anything...

But I don't see how parrying a shot in close combat really works. I know some of you have written that hitting the gun, or shoulder connected to the gun arm, would be "parrying" a shot, but I'd disagree. If you can reach out to knock someone's shoulder hard enough to send their shot askew, then that sounds more like an attack than a reactionary parry .

A parry is something you do as a reaction. When an attack is just about to hit you , you move your weapon in the way and deflect the attack. You don't block the attack before it is launched; your opponent would see your sword (or whatever) in the way of his attack arc, and most likely reposition himself.

The same goes for dodging . You move out of the way, just before the attack is landed . If you tried to dodge before you opponent was commited to the attack, he simply would not follow through.

So if you were close enough, and had enough time to poke your foe's shoulder out of the way with your weapon, I'd ask why you didn't poke him in the face and just kill him. And don't get me started on trying to parry a bullet or las bolt.

Parrying a pistol is where you grab their wrist and try to point it away from your body. Maybe it works - maybe it doesn't. Either way, you're still in melee combat and liable to being headbutted next round.

When, would you say, does the Point Blank Range modifier come into play? This seems like a fitting thread to discuss this.

Page 196 Shooting into Melee... bellow it optional rules for hitting friendlies instead.

Lomax said:

You don't get any range modifiers for using a pistol in melee, it states this in the rules.

Otherwise I think it's three metres isn't it?

3 meters it is. If you were one meter away from your target (the next square over) it'd only count as point-blank if you weren't engaged in melee. An unaware target (for a grand total of +60 to hit) would qualify, and I imagine a stunned target would as well. A prone target might too, but I'm unsure.

Yo!

Is it really impossible to fire a rifle while in melee combat? I would say most certainly not! Why then should we forbid players to do so? Is this one of those pesky times when "balance" states that we may not do something just because?

Like the fact that wizards CANNOT wear heavy armour in some games... this is a roleplaying game, not a computer game. In a computer game there must be certain limitations to a character's actions or there would be an infinite amount of code to write. In a roleplaying game a player is only limited by his or her own imagination.

So let the players shoot however much they want to in combat, ranged or otherwise. It is up to the GM to decide modifiers for this action. A player wants to fire his combat shotgun on semi-auto in melee to utterly destroy his opponent? Sure, the opponent gets a big bonus to evade the attack, no bonus to the attacking player's BS.

This is the way we handle this in our group and we have had no trouble with it whatsoever. Melee weapons still rule the day in melee due to many, many factors. And never forget: Whatever the players can think of, the enemies can think of

Snidesworth said:

CURB STOMP!

If you're going to give pistols a chance to hit friends in melee, you also need to give melee weapons a chance to hit friends, if you're thinking 'realistically'. Swings can go wide, be parried or dodged. Thrusts can be off target, etc. With you, your opponent, and your 'friend' all moving about, twisting, moving forwards and backwards, it's actually quite easy to accidentally strike someone else engaged in the combat if you're not careful/trained. Just like you're proposing for pistols.

We handle it pretty simply: if you miss shooting into combat (either in melee with a pistol or at a distance with a rifle) and you fail by three degrees or more (for sure with 96-00), you hit a friend.

Done.

Snidesworth said:

Can someone point me to the correct page in the Errata where it states only single shots in melee? I've read it cover to cover multiple times and still cannot find this rule. But I did find where it says that you still use BS while using a pistol in melee.