A certain Witch House encounter has you rolling a die, losing that much Sanity, and gaining that many Clue tokens. Since it said losing Sanity first, the Investigator in question lost all of his Sanity, lost half his items and Clue tokens, then gained the six Clue tokens from the encounter. Correct or not, in your opinion?

Solan said:

My first reaction was no, because the player's turn ended. But what ends is the ability to have further encounters.

Apparently, but I wouldn't play it that way. Also depends on what the actual encounter card reads.

Unconscious in Arkham
If an investigator is ever reduced to 0 Stamina while in
Arkham, the investigator is knocked unconscious. He
must immediately choose and discard half of his items
and half of his Clue tokens (rounded down), along with
all retainers (if any). The player then immediately moves
his investigator to St. Mary’s Hospital. The investigator is
restored to 1 Stamina and has no further encounters this
turn. The investigator may take his next turn as normal.

This rule for elder signs could be used to support either argument:

To use an elder sign, do the following:
• The player removes 1 Sanity and 1 Stamina from his
investigator sheet. This may knock the investigator
unconscious or drive him insane, but the elder sign still
takes effect.

1) Since it is especially noted that the elder sign works, then other similar situaions don't work, since they are not specially noted.

or

2) Since this works for elder signs it also works for similar situations.

Here's another comment by the author. Not quite on point tho:

1. If one goes insane or unconscious or is devoured as a result of casting a spell or using an item, is it generally the case that the effect of the spell or item still occurs (in the same way an Elder Sign's effect takes place even if one of the above happens as a result of using it)?

Yes. It will often not matter, however, as in the case where you're getting a combat bonus or something.

The actual encounter card reads, ". . . Roll a die. Lose that much Sanity and gain that many Clue tokens".

Its all in the same line so happens at the same time.

MrsGamura said:

Unconscious in Arkham
If an investigator is ever reduced to 0 Stamina while in
Arkham, the investigator is knocked unconscious. He
must immediately choose and discard half of his items
and half of his Clue tokens...

So you're saying that the player immediately gets the clue tokens and loses half of them from going on unconscious even though the rule for going unconscious states theres an immediate choice to be made? That is, resolve the entire sentence from the encounter card before applying the rule in the rulebook. That's more generous than I would play it be less generous than the OP stated.

I play it like that... investigator at 1 Sanity... draws this encounter losses the Sanity and Gains 6 clues... ends up at the Nut Farm with 3 clues. Thats just how I play it... same thing with monster trophies I count their blood drops at time of slaying. No monster stock market for me!

Wow this one is a tough one !

I would say since the encounter text states that ". . . Roll a die. Lose that much Sanity and gain that many Clue tokens"

I think the important word here in this situation is AND. There are many encounters that have a THEN instead of AND, the word THEN implies an order to the operations, like lose 1 sanity THEN draw a spell. To me the word AND implies that the effects happen at EXACTLY the same time, which I think is the correct way to interpret this.

The way I look at it, there wouldnt be a need for a rule stating that if you're ever reduced to zero stamina AND zero sanity at the same time you're devoured, if there was not the possibility of resolving two effects simultaneously. Otherwise, if you were ever reduced both a sanity and a stamina at the same time whichever resolved first would put you in either St. Mary's with 1 stamina or Arkham Asylum with 1 sanity.

The way I would play it is if the roll was going to drive you insane, add the clue tokens first then halve your total along with your items as normal.

If you didn't get any clues from the encounter after losing all your sanity that card would be ridiculous. Might as well just have it say "you are driven insane and you get nothing. Ha Ha you die"

Lord of Squirrels said:

Wouldn't be the first time the game has done that.

Nonetheless, I agree with what seems to be the consensus. Both get the clues, and go insane. You don't necessarily have to lose the tokens, though, if you can draw a madness card. That's usually going to be the best option, if you have Dunwich.

flamethrower49 said:

I did that last game :') took six clues. Drew a madness so I didn't have to lose any.

flamethrower49 said:

Of course you're going to both get the clues and go insane. The question is one of timing: do you get the clues AFTER you go insane or before? Both cannot happen at the same time, because as Mageith points out, the rules say that the effects of going insane happen immediately. I do have Dunwich, but we houseruled that you can't take an Injury or Madness card when you hit zero Stamina or Sanity, since that makes the game too easy.

The group consensus seems to be that you get the clues first, then go insane. Kevin has been very active on these boards laterly, so I must admit I was kind of hoping he would stop by and answer personally.

Solan said:

::Cough cough:: true... Madness and Injuries do usually make the game easier... Still, it seems a shame not to use them :') perhaps you should have investigators gain them in addition to the other consequences of insanity and unconsciousness ;'D

Avi_dreader said:

It would be nice to see more horrific injuries and madnesses. One injury I came up with is Weak Heart: Horror Damage is deducted from both Sanity and Stamina. There must be others.

I made madness alzheimer's: upkeep: roll a die on a 1-2 lose one clue token. If you can't lose one sanity.

Avi_dreader said:

This is one of the best ideas I have heard all week, when I dig into that madness / injury card expansion I'm going to house rule it that way. Half your clues, half your items, trip to the Asylum / Hospital + pick up a madness / injury card.

That will keep you on your toes for sure.

Vaxsythrakul said:

::Laughter:: I see you've already got a madness card ;')