So the Tie Advanced obviously needs some help. It doesn't really have a role to fill right now, and I aim to fix that.

I've always seen the Tie Advanced as much more of a command and control node due to Vader flying it. So this is how I'd like to fix it:

Modification:

-Tie Advanced only

-Action: Assign up to two red target locks to a single enemy ship, and the corresponding blue target locks to other friendly ships within range 1-2. Both target locks may not be assigned to the same friendly ship, and each friendly ship may still only maintain 1 target lock.

-Cost: 3

So what do you guys think? Personally I feel that it works really well as a boost to small formations and provides a lot of synergy with Tie Bombers, Defenders, and Interceptors. 3 points feels pretty cheap to me, but is mitigated by the Advanced being overcosted as it is now.

It could be the best 'fix' in the Galaxy, but unless you're an FFG designer, it's likely to go nowhere.

Proton Rockets are not far away and it has been hinted that the TIE-Advanced will be getting some much needed love in the future...

It's almost pointless trying to offer fixes that will never see print, but I guess you can try. You're not the first thread to try and you won't be the last either...

I think the TIE Advanced needs to be looked at as the Imperial X-Wing, which is exactly what it's supposed to be, I think. It really just needs an outright cost reduction card.

So, first off, fundamentals.

The TIE Advanced is overcosted by almost exactly 4 points relative to a TIE Fighter. So you need to give the generics 4 points worth of buffs to be useful. Vader probably only needs 2 or 3 points worth of buffs.

Now think about your idea. How much is it worth? Well, it costs an action, and 3 points, and gives 2 target locks. That means it's actually worth a net of zero, and that's assuming you meet the conditions of using it.

Your idea wouldn't be as bad if it didn't cost an action, but even in this case it still probably isn't quite enough. It costs 3, and gives 6 worth of "value", making it a net 3 point buff. However it is highly conditional, requires multiple (2+) ships near it to be useful, and so generally wouldn't be good enough to make the ship tournament viable.

Proton Rockets are good, but not nearly good enough to dig the ship out of the 4 point hole.

My personal favorite is:

Title. TIE Advanced Only.

Cost: -1 (Vader) / -2 (others)

After performing an attack, you may acquire a target lock on the defender.

I think the TIE Advanced needs to be looked at as the Imperial X-Wing, which is exactly what it's supposed to be, I think. It really just needs an outright cost reduction card.

No, it doesn't. Making it cheaper puts it in direct competition with the Interceptor, which outperforms it handily in categories that actually help you win. But it also improves its defensive efficiency from merely very good to untouchably the best in the game.

Basically, making it cheaper potentially unbalances it further without actually making it more attractive. It's going to need something more complicated than a simple cost cut (which is, IMO, why it can't take the Chardaan Refit even though it the card have been written in that way).

I think the TIE Advanced needs to be looked at as the Imperial X-Wing, which is exactly what it's supposed to be, I think. It really just needs an outright cost reduction card.

No, it doesn't. Making it cheaper puts it in direct competition with the Interceptor, which outperforms it handily in categories that actually help you win. But it also improves its defensive efficiency from merely very good to untouchably the best in the game.

Basically, making it cheaper potentially unbalances it further without actually making it more attractive. It's going to need something more complicated than a simple cost cut (which is, IMO, why it can't take the Chardaan Refit even though it the card have been written in that way).

I don't know. Functionally one is a glass cannon and the other is a tank. Even if you had a 17 point PS2 TIE Advanced or a 25 point Vader, I don't know that it would be competing with Alpha Squadron Pilots or Soontir Fel. They are close by points, but that's about it.

I guess this is just another way of agreeing with your second point that the ship needs more than a pure point cost reduction.

I still like mine best Tie Advanced only modification- transfer power. You may Increase primary weapon by one and reduce agility by one at the beginning of the combat phase

All the old familiar places.

I still like mine best Tie Advanced only modification- transfer power. You may Increase primary weapon by one and reduce agility by one at the beginning of the combat phase

"Make it an X-Wing"

Put Backstabber, Howlrunner, Mauler Mithel (among others) type abilities in the advanced shell and we might not be having these discussions. Sure all of them become more expensive but their new increased survivability makes actually increases the value of their abilities. Hence why the most influential change to the advanced is better pilot abilities, and not necessarily a bolt on fix (though it will help).

But as I posted in the other thread it was balanced with respect to the x-wing as counterpart rather than the more logical interceptor.

I still like mine best Tie Advanced only modification- transfer power. You may Increase primary weapon by one and reduce agility by one at the beginning of the combat phase

"Make it an X-Wing"

Kinda, it can be evasive or damaging. You get to choose every turn. If you are under heavy fire choose 3 agility, if you need to do some damage then choose 3 attack. It's just like the ability to transfer power from the X-wing video games.

I think the TIE Advanced needs to be looked at as the Imperial X-Wing, which is exactly what it's supposed to be, I think. It really just needs an outright cost reduction card.

No, it doesn't. Making it cheaper puts it in direct competition with the Interceptor, which outperforms it handily in categories that actually help you win. But it also improves its defensive efficiency from merely very good to untouchably the best in the game.

Basically, making it cheaper potentially unbalances it further without actually making it more attractive. It's going to need something more complicated than a simple cost cut (which is, IMO, why it can't take the Chardaan Refit even though it the card have been written in that way).

I don't know. Functionally one is a glass cannon and the other is a tank. Even if you had a 17 point PS2 TIE Advanced or a 25 point Vader, I don't know that it would be competing with Alpha Squadron Pilots or Soontir Fel. They are close by points, but that's about it.

I guess this is just another way of agreeing with your second point that the ship needs more than a pure point cost reduction.

yeah, they perform very differently.

This could be a cool general upgrade though, dunno what type though. systems? could be useful, on lambdas and bwings, ewings...

but i would see it best for things like bombers and interceptors. Would love it. maybe an imperial only upgrade? =D heaven knows we could use a few more of those

I expect to see a TIE Advanced packaged with an Imperial huge ship (I'm hoping for the BFF-1 Bulk Freighter), with new pilot cards, as with the X-Wing/GR-75.

A title card or other T/A specific upgrade seems like a good possibility, but FFG has been clever about game balance and I think they might surprise us.

Give it more shields, or an ability that involves regenerating shields. Shields are one of the defining characteristics of the the tie advanced relative to the other tie fighters, so put them front and centre.

Alternatively, give it an ability that buffs surrounding ships, as there's scenes of the tie advanced flying in tight formation with tie fighters in the trench run.

The easy fix is allow it to take System Upgrade for free.

Title: Enhanced Computer Systems

Modification: Advanced Only (So no Vader)

0 Points

May add a System Upgrade to your ship.

This allows Fire Control Systems, Accuracy Corrector, and other goodies. Fixes the ship without much issues. No need to reduce cost.

If i had a dollar for every time this thread came up...

Why not make a Title card" "Tie Avenger" that ups the attack dice by one?

Because then it would be an x-wing, and there'd be nothing unique about it.

Why not make a Title card" "Tie Avenger" that ups the attack dice by one?

If they're going to fix the tie advanced, it's also an opportunity to introduce something new and interesting. (I admit my idea about extra shields is boring)

The system's upgrade is OK, but it'd be cool if they did something that made the advanced feel more unique. Perhaps a system's upgrade slot AND some interesting titles.

The easy fix is allow it to take System Upgrade for free.

Title: Enhanced Computer Systems

Modification: Advanced Only (So no Vader)

0 Points

May add a System Upgrade to your ship.

This allows Fire Control Systems, Accuracy Corrector, and other goodies. Fixes the ship without much issues. No need to reduce cost.

The easy fix is allow it to take System Upgrade for free.

Title: Enhanced Computer Systems

Modification: Advanced Only (So no Vader)

0 Points

May add a System Upgrade to your ship.

This allows Fire Control Systems, Accuracy Corrector, and other goodies. Fixes the ship without much issues. No need to reduce cost.

I like this idea as well. System modifications could really add a lot of potential, and there aren't many ships with it.

Why not make a Title card" "Tie Avenger" that ups the attack dice by one?

I feel like this would just make it a tankier but slower Interceptor, which I've never really felt like we need.

A command craft I think is still the way to go, what about changing the modification I gave above to:

-At the start of the combat phase: a single stress token, blue target lock, or focus may be moved from one friendly ship to another within range 1-2.

-Cost: 0

On another note; why is everyone so hostile towards coming up with a potential fix? I'm aware that I'm not a game designer and that there have likely been threads similar to this in the past. However, house rules happen and who knows who could be looking at the X-Wing official forum.

hmm... patience, a new upgrade or two will make the advance playable again. In the meantime...

dark helmet says:

hmm... patience, a new upgrade or two will make the advance playable again. In the meantime...

dark helmet says:

Work blocked the picture unfortunately, but I always appreciate a Spaceballs reference haha

You can somewhat compare the TIE Advanced to the X-Wing in that they are almost mirrors of each other. The X-Wing has a cheap 21 point generic, with 2 defense and 3 attack, while the Advanced flip flops the attack and defense.

The X-Wing has three distinct advantages though.

• One is the Astromech, which over time, has become more and more of a big deal - since they make new astromechs semi frequently.
• Two is the extra attack die. Attack is always better than defense, due to the crit, the lower chance of blanks, and the fact that attacking is how you win games.
• And three is the wealth of cool and special X-Wing pilots. Biggs alone makes the X-Wing worthwhile, not to mention Luke, Wedge, Janson, Tarn.... even Porkins and Garven have their uses. The Advance has only Vader and Maarek Stele, and while I DO like Maarek Stele, he requires a WHOLE lot of support for his ability to actually work.

So what you need to do first off, is give the Advanced some more pilots. Obviously this is the easiest thing to do, as any ship that gets revisited always gets at least 2 new pilots. We can all expect this, and it will allow the ship itself to see more play.

The next thing you need to do is to make the Advanced's existing abilities become relevant again. It has Barrel Roll - which could be exploited - (Modification that does something cool AFTER you barrel roll, for example). It also has a missile slot. Now Proton Rockets are easily one way to make the advanced work again... but they may not be enough. I'd expect something else cool go in that slot. Either a new missile, or something special like the refit.

the last thing you can do, which is the most restrictive, is make TIE Advanced-Only upgrades. Be it a modification, a title, or a missile that ONLY goes on the advanced. This allows you to make it more significant, without unbalancing other ships. (A super new missile could make A-Wings or Bombers unbalanced for example).

Imagine if they allowed something truly crazy - like giving the advanced the ability to carry an astromech or bomb? Or a combo - the astromech bomb - it buzzes and whirs then explodes!

hmm... patience, a new upgrade or two will make the advance playable again. In the meantime...

dark helmet says:

Work blocked the picture unfortunately, but I always appreciate a Spaceballs reference haha

it's just a picture of dark helmet saying "soon you will learn that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb"!

hilarious none the less! =)

EDIT: Don't mean to derail the conversation.. it's just that we've umm... been here before. Crabbok actually makes some really good points here though.