I stumbled upon a random thought a few nights ago, which led me to a few random questions.

I am assuming that the phantom's decloak action is in reference to the physical limitations of the game (miniatures) and tracking such a ship. The movement created from decloaking is, in my interpretation, movement that the ship made whilst cloaked. It is not "exactly" where the opponent had thought it was.

That's a great mechanic (in part) due to limitations. My question arises based on the idea that all "turns" in game take the same amount of time. Even if turn time were different, relative time between ships and time to distance traveled remains the same. If we assume that, the phantom becomes the fastest (even possibly the most maneuverable ship) in the universe (so far).

So, given that fact, how is the phantom a "faster ship" than either an A wing or Tie Interceptor?

In the "perfect" world, a phantom can cover a total of seven (a two forward decloak which covers three because of the ship base followed by a four forward move) with potentially a boost (with upgrade. bringing total movement to nine) or even a re-cloak (if it could attack. Which leads to the when the movement under the cloak occurs). (yes, I know it cannot re-cloak *and* boost, however with either it is traveling farther than any other ship can). Not to mention that the phantom can do barrel rolls that would make Sootir Fel's head spin (best carnival ride ever?).

Also, when do you believe the cloak "movement" happens?

My personal assumption is that it was supposed to be "split" over two turns.

I mean, if we break the "cloak" movement over the two turns a non-ACD phantom could move, it makes more sense. To me, then, the movement assumed under the cloak becomes half a barrel roll or half a boost each turn (in a two turn cloak/decloak cycle). It also slows the ship's movement down entirely.

Anyway, these questions exist for exploring the immersion/explanation of things (for me at least). Thanks for reading.

EDIT: Cleaned wording up. Changed font. Apologies if these questions have been asked already. Should have named the title "questions".

The way I look at it (and I don't have my rules in front of me, so I may be wrong..)

The Decloak action is NOT an actual action, as it takes place outside of the normal phase of events - it takes place PRIOR to movement.

So, A cloaked Phantom that wishes to attack would look something like this - Decloak (and the corresponding movement using the 2 straight or bank depending on the pilot), Movement, ACTION (Focus, Barrel Roll, Evade or Cloak), and attack (unless cloaked). If you have the Adv Cloaking Device, it's a little different, - DECLOAK, Movement, Action, Attack w/free Re-cloak.

Unless you have the Adv Cloaking device, you are NOT decloaking and attacking in the same turn, as the cloak ACTION would be prior to your attack.

My questions aren't about rulings involving the actual play of the TIE Phantom. They are in regards to canonically how we can explain its insane movement/speed. And trying to see how other people interpret the cloaking of the ship (and how they explain the movement under the cloak). I'm wondering all this from an immersion perspective.

Also, does anyone else have the problem that they type TIE Phatom a lot?

It really is the fastest ship right now. At the moment, the 7 forward with push the limit to bankboost and then barrelroll forward gives you the longest single turn movement possible.

Should it be faster than the a wing or interceptor or defender? probably not. The difference in speed isn't as big if the ship isn't using advanced cloak to recloak for free every turn. Then it gains so much extra movement. once again, ACD is the broken part, not necessarily the Phantom itself.

If you're wondering about the decloak "speed" and think that it is "fair" when used over two turns (cloak this turn then decloak next followed again by cloaking in the third) but that ACD "breaks" that it could help to think of a ship with ACD actually attacking from some undetermined location.

All that decloaking can go in one direction for only so long and when using ACD things will break earlier rather than later. If a ship were to zig-zag the decloaks you could view the actual ship as being somewhere between those points at any given time.

If I'm honest it isn't the decloak movement that I have the most trouble with understanding from a non-game perspective but rather how you can even get attacks in on a Phantom when you don't know where it is. To put it another way I almost think the +2 defense dice while cloaked is too low although raising it would probably destroy any kind of game balance.

Well, what I find funny is when a cloaked ship is Target Locked by an enemy ship. I mean, I move my Phantom, then CLOAK. He moves his X-Wing (or whatever ship) then gets a Target Lock on my already-cloaked Phantom. Huh??

If they needed maybe a roll, like roll 1 red dice and on a Focus result, they manage to lock onto the Phantom "just in time before he re-cloaks" would make a lot more sense.

Not that the Phantom needs anything more to make it more bad-ass. Hehehe.... Just felt a bit wrong being Target Locked all the time, then spending the rest of the game dragging those TL tokens around (usually 2-3 tokens!). I don't give the enemy player a chance to use his TLs!

This is a tricky one to try and explain fluff wise. The Wookiepedia states "While sensor jammers could leave a starship invisible to sensors, cloaking devices generated cloaking fields that completely absorbed all incoming sensor scans while shielding the host ship's emissions and reflected energy, thus rendering the starship invisible to both sensors and the naked eye."

Which doesn't explain the shift in movement represented by the decloak effect in the game. So effectively, it's right where you left it, you just can't see it or lock sensors onto it. This would have created more hassle than it's worth in the game for the designers. Do you make it completely invisible in that no one can shoot at it? That would be technically correct but overpowered gamewise. Add some extra defense dice. But you can still target it, so is it properly "cloaked"?

I think the cloak/decloak mechanic is simple and effective and most importantly, playable. The designers probably went down various avenues of thought when figuring out how they were going to incorporate such a unique ship. And this one is the one that works.

As for speed and the claim that the Phantom is now the fastest ship, what needs to be taken into account is that none of the ships are going at full speed "in game". The maximum speeds stated in various sources are not being used within the game mechanics. It's more about the maneuverability than the top speeds of the ships. So if you forget about the Phantom being "too fast", it tends to make more sense. Yes that does mean that the Phantom is now the most agile around the board.

I've tried many methods of design for submarine "hidden" movement for World War II Naval and the easiest method came down to using a hex grid and keeping a written record of which hex the sub was in, and which way it was facing, and its depth. Written every turn for every hex it moved into. To use this method, the Phantom would have to be restricted to a hex grid, along with the other ships, and that would be a huge step backwards design wise. The free flow of the game works without that sort of restriction, and the decloak mechanic still works within it.

Fluff wise, maybe not quite as accurate as it could be, but that's the sacrifices that were made to incorporate the Phantom.

That's an interesting way of looking at it Rick. I guess it just bugs me that in an unlimited play space that a Phantom can keep up with a boosting A-Wing or TIE Interceptor (or any boosting 5 speed ship I guess). Or that it can out barrel roll an interceptor.

It just seems silly to me. Especially since (in my head, at least), the phantom is probably shunting some power to its cloaking device (which takes so much power it can't shoot WHILE cloaked. And yet can shoot then re-cloak).

I like your take on it though, Rick.

Boost Barrel Roll can pull this off too: the TIE interceptor and Advanced x1 (Vader's one, not the other three) can pull off that level of speed.

Boost Barrel Roll can pull this off too: the TIE interceptor and Advanced x1 (Vader's one, not the other three) can pull off that level of speed.

Yeah, they can keep up with the model. My thoughts revolve around when the 'movement' under the cloak effect occurs.

Or that a phantom is moving as fast as an interceptor even without an engine upgrade. It just feels canonically weird to me.